Ask Baron: Dual Joystick Setups – What’s Best for Aiming in Star Citizen?

Ask Baron: Dual Joystick Setups – What’s Best for Aiming in Star Citizen?

You got two T-16000Ms and feel like your directional
one is incredibly hard to aim with… The reason for that is because there is a
strong centering mechanism in the T-16000M. Makes it difficult to do precise aiming with. So let’s demonstrate this… It’s time for another Show and Tell with BadNewsBaron! This is the failing of the T-16000M, it’s
not meant for space flight, at all. It’s good that it can be configured to be
right or left handed, like right now the thumb grips are set up so it’s naturally left handed. So, the things to consider when choosing a
joystick — let’s move me back up a little bit. Last week we talked about how we used this
for strafing controls and all that stuff, which is nice when you’re going in one direction
gradually and then it hard auto-centers. It’s a very hard auto-center, does not flop
around at all. Good. Hooray. You’ve got this big detent in the center,
which snaps back, and then moves. It takes a lot of force to get it out of center,
which means if you want to do very precise movements in the middle, you can’t. It’s gonna lock up, you’re gonna have a hard
time. This is one of the reasons I’m so excited
about the joystick I’m using [VKB Fat Black Mamba Mk III]. Um… I don’t know how well this… all right, it
doesn’t matter. Okay, so. I’ve broken my pod now. So, there is a T-16000M which hard centers,
and then there is this one, which is a little bit floppy. It’s quite a bit floppy actually. A little bit of a floppy joystick right there,
but there is… this uses a different centering mechanism, so instead of having springs or
whatever else that might make it lock back really hard, it has a sort of internal cam
mechanism where there are these little metal parts and they’re sliding over each other
so it’s very smoothly distributed. So I have extremely fine, overly fine actually,
control over the center. I have to set deadzones for myself. If I wanted to I could really up the sensitivity
and control the entire ship using just a little motion. It’s like having a hair trigger, actually. It’s really good. This is a super high-end joystick. You don’t need to spend $350 on your joystick
unless you’re a super crazy hobbyist insane person who plays games for a living. Don’t live your life like me, is what I’m
saying. But the same sort of principles apply, because
you want to find something that is not very hard in the center. So, on that note, the X55 from Saitek, the
X56 I think as well, both have springs in the center. This doesn’t have a spring ,but normally there’s
a spring right here that would sit below the joystick. And you can swap those out for either lighter
or heavier springs to make it more centering or less centering. This one actually has some internal springs
as well, but they operate in a different fashion. So I can swap it out for more centering or
less centering as well. That’s also something good to consider. That’s actually an advantage over the X52
Pro I would say. The Warthog as well has a spring, but it doesn’t
have variable springs. So what you can do if you have a Warthog,
you can compress or trim the internal spring that rests inside the base of the joystick. Some people clip those. What I did is I actually taped down the bottom
couple of coils and just made the spring shorter that way it wasn’t as much of a permanent
fix. That’s what I used to do. You want fine control at the center. This is why when you really get into the flight
control hobbyist stuff. Especially in a space sim where you’re doing
most of your maneuvering in the very center, it starts to become challenging. But yeah, that’s why the Thrustmaster T-16000M
is not necessarily a great joystick to aim with. I would maybe get a different stick. Even like an old Cyborg or something like
that, for your right hand. Something with twist if you can. Unless you want to get pedals. In which case get whatever the hell you want. Good? Solid? Everybody understand?


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    I wish I could live my life like you. Grass is always greener.

    What stick did you swap the Warthog out for? Wasn't mentioned.

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    Great to see this Tube SC activity!
    I used to fly with HOTAS then gave it up for dual joystick as well.
    T16000M in left and very soon VKB Gladiator Pro with metal gimbals in right to replace the X-55 stick.

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    Daniel Röttenbacher

    Once had the weird idea to use double joystick and link the thrusters of left and right shipside to the respective sticks, but would probably insane to control properly ^^

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    So, its not recomended to fly with two T16000ms? Cose i was about to get two of em… u know… Any advices on something that is acurated and dosnt cost like 200$? My pocket cant aford it XD!

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    If you have two T16000m's then you really need to mod the aiming stick, otherwise you're probably going to have a tough time of it. You open it up and use a cable tie to compress the inner spring; this makes it MUCH easier to aim with. It's not really hard to do. There are videos on how to do this on youtube.

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    if you have two sticks, one will probably control pitch (y), roll (z), and yaw (y), right? so if the second stick uses x and y for aiming your reticle, what do you use for strafe? or if x, y, and z are set for three dimensions of strafe, is there still a way to aim your reticle/pips independent of the nose of the ship? if there is some sort of modifier button to differentiate between strafe and aiming on the same stick, then how do you aim whilst strafing? it seems like ideal flight controls with gimbled weapons would almost require three hands. like…maybe two sticks and a mouse. how do you manage all this at once? maybe theres some way to bind strafe controls to some kind of foot petals or something?

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    Arts K

    Thrustmaster hotas Warthog, yeah it might be a good stick. But i'm not gonna spend almost €400,- for a joystick🙄

    From all reviews regarding joysticks for space sims, i conclude for myself that the T16000 will be the nr.1 to buy☝Performance and price, thats most important for me.

    And i've seen alot of reviews(week) and now its time to make the call. Because i've noticed that every joystick has his plus and minors. This one is better then that one, that one is better then this one and so on and so on. This is what you'll hear and see in the most reviews. Its like a commercial lol

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    I'm currently using t16000m + mouse: joystick for "x" and "z" strafe (therefor not using thrust at all) and roll and mouse for aiming and "y" strafe. Maybe in the future I'll get another stick (or not), but I really recommend getting your left stick first, it's really precise and fun to fly.

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    I'm currently using t16000m + mouse: joystick for "x" and "z" strafe (therefor not using thrust at all) and roll and mouse for aiming and "y" strafe. Maybe in the future I'll get another stick (or not), but I really recommend getting your left stick first, it's really precise and fun to fly.

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    An Warthog is even more stiffer in the center. For ppl with low budget the things you showed for aiming are a No No for us. Does the tie-zip trick work for the T16000m?

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    "Don't live your life like me"

    LOL – I guess we all feel like that from time to time. Cool video, thanks for sharing it

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    Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS is not made for space flight? I thought it was made with the developers of Elite Dangerous hu strange guess i must have heard wrong…

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    I must be in trouble, all I have is a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, you said nothing so either it has no problems or it's the worst piece of junk that you don't want to talk about it.  😉
    Despite having a joystick (or two) I'm guessing that most players while on foot use the keyboard (WASD) keys versus a mouse.  I've been having a problem using my mouse, I can't control the head from popping up and down.
    A bigger problem is key bindings, from day one playing Star Citizen (1 or 2 months+?) I would get close to what I want (twist L&R = yaw L&R, hat = strafe) then it got messed up again (update of game) and I couldn't remember where I had left off.
    Now it's so messed up (multi actions on one command) that I need to "close out the game entirely" (uninstall?) and start from scratch. Oh joy.  😉
    The last problem (not related to game) I my GPU isn't being recognized by the CPU and after getting it to work then not work it looks like I need to send it back to ASUS for a solution.  ;-(
    Ok, sob story over. I'm hoping you have a vid on key binding?

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    lmao ok, a bad workman blames his tools. if u suck no matter what modifications u do u will still suck, someone good will fly good even with "crappy joystick"
    and who buys saitek? they are shit and not cheap lol

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    hey i have a vkb fat black mamba for my right stick and a t16000m for left joystick. Could you guide on how to setup both joysticks as well as the configuration that you use?

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    I have Saitek X55 and Track IR and rudder pedals.. so yeah i love how Elite Dangerous use all this assets.. problem with SC is that you have FPS component wher you need to play using mouse & keyboard and that means moving from flight sim setup to FPS setup within 2 secs or so.. Problem is you need like HUGE table to place everything. That is why i will use probably just Track IR and mouse Y keyboard…

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    Mida Multitool

    Okay… now how do i order this big black …. mamba? I cant find it for sale anywhere. If its not for sale anymore whats a good alternative other then 16000m?

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    Thank-you for the information (what stick is that?) For some months I've been trying to setup a single Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, keybindings (Yaw / twist, Roll / tilt stick and Stafe / hat).
    I've heard that when binding Yaw, Pitch and Stafe I only need to move the control one direction, ie: twist left, tilt right, press fwd and it will be automatically saved in both directions?
    Regarding "Controls", their modified After finishing keybindings (not before)?
    The keybindings I've seen are for ship maneuvers, not aiming weapons. What's used for aiming, keyboard (WASD), mouse?
    I just had a thought, can any joystick be setup with a button to switch from flight to Movement/FPS?
    I just found a previous comment from 3 months ago. 😉

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    Completely agree with this. I ended up selling my T16000m because of the overly stiff centering. Makes it incredibly difficult to accurately aim in Star Citizen even with some curve and sensitivity tweeking. VKB or CH Products is the way to go in my opinion.

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    Nice video, could you make a video about the best high end joystick options for aiming in SC? Or maybe just post a list in the comment reply? Thanks a lot in advanced :).

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    _ skyguy _

    Honestly I bought two logitech extreme 3d and I don't really understand why people are so excited about dual joysticks. You have better aim with a mouse in my opinion.

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    J Masked

    I dont know why people get their panties in a twist about spending a few hundred dollars on an awesome device when they spend 20,000 on a car. Spend 19,500 and get that thing you want.. no one should give you shit for spending your hard earnt money on things that make you happy.

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    VKB and VIRPIL Joysticks – that's what is worth the Money. Not like the Warthog, or Logitech X55, for Example.

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