Gun Control will Not Cure a Society that Produces Monstrous Behavior

Gun Control will Not Cure a Society that Produces Monstrous Behavior


Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Paul
Jay. In a previous interview with Dr. Gerald Horne, we discussed how guns, and God, and
country are all part of the religious faith of the far right in the United States. The
idea that guns and the individual right to defend oneself is more an act of faith than
an act of logic, when one actually works through the arguments of how one actually achieves
public safety, but there’s a reason why, or some reasons why, I think, that a lot of ordinary
people can believe in such a faith, because part of that faith is a recognition of the
decay of values in the society, the chaos in society, the violence in society. A lot
of that is attributed — by such people who believe in these things — to the Democratic
Party, and the intellectual elites, as they see them, the elites in the Democratic Party.
I frankly think there’s something to that argument. Now joining me to discuss that again is Dr.
Gerald Horne. Dr. Horne holds the John J. and Rebecca Moore Chair of History and African
American Studies at the University of Houston. His latest book is The Counterrevolution
of 1776: Slave Resistance and the Origins of the United States of America. Thanks for
joining me again, Gerald. Thank you. When one looks at what’s happened to a large
extent in popular culture, certainly what’s happened in terms of the growing inequality
gap in terms of economics, ordinary working people who had some sense of stability from
an economy that used to be far more reliable, and with that ideological and institutional
beliefs that seemed far more reliable, and a lot of that seems up in the air now. People
feel very threatened, both economically and in terms of their core beliefs. They feel
like this society doesn’t believe in much of anything anymore. That leads, I think, leads people with some
legitimacy to think that a lot of the leadership of the Democratic Party and their promises
are such hypocrisy, and that some of this violence needs to be laid on their doorstep.
When the charge for gun control is led by that leadership of the Democratic Party, it
feels hypocritical, because they’re not dealing with some of the conditions that lead to so
much mental illness, so much psychosis in this society. The numbers of these mass shootings
are certainly increasing. This feeling that society’s spinning out of control, and that
the Democratic Party leadership has a lot to do with that, and of course that gets exaggerated,
because it’s not like when the Republicans are in power it’s better, but this all gets
manipulated a lot. Anyway, what are your thoughts, Dr. Horne? I would say that there are profound sociological
reasons for what is occurring with regard to mass shootings. First of all, consider
the fact that overwhelmingly and disproportionately those who pull the trigger are men. We should
not take that for granted. We should instead seek to analyze why that might be the case,
and it does not take an expert in sociology to quickly arrive at the conclusion that many
men in this country have been unsettled by the changing role of gender in this country,
by the enhanced role and authority of women, by the rise of feminism. There hasn’t been
an adequate ventilation and discussion of this particular question, and as a result,
it has left many men without any kind of understanding of what’s going on in the society in which
they’re operating, leading men, as the saying goes, many men at least, to cling with bitterness
to their guns. Secondly, with regard to foreign policy, I
find it quite striking that a central aspect of U.S. foreign policy in recent decades has
not only been war, that is to say settling political and sociological problems from the
barrel of a gun, be it Libya, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, but also helping to fuel a certain
kind of religious zealotry, particularly in pre-1979 Afghanistan, and not least in pre-2011
Libya, and then of course that particular phenomenon comes home to roost with the killing
in Texas engineered by Nidal Hasan, the killing at the Pulse nightclub, for example. That
general idea of settling political and sociological problems through the barrel of a gun should
not be thought of as just an exemplar of religious zealots such as Nidal Hasan in Texas. It’s
part of the U.S. culture, as noted in our previous segment, going back to European settlement
in the 1600s. Look at Hollywood movies and television shows,
at the number of movies and shows that glorify the most outlandish amounts of killing and
slaughtering. That’s not new. We’ve had decades of that kind of culture developing. Again,
I go to ordinary working people that buy into this kind of God, gun, and country ideology.
It’s a legitimate concern when they look at what the kind of stuff that Hollywood produces,
the level of violence of it, but I also think one of the points that the NRA woman made
had a kernel of truth to it. I mean in the town hall CNN organized. According to her,
there were 39 points where the young man that did the shooting was in connection with the
state or social agencies in some ways, whether it was the police force or some kind of social
agencies, and they kept diagnosing him as having mental illness. They saw some of his
very threatening posts on social media. We have to start, number one, following up
on red flags. 39 times in the past year, it was law enforcement or it was social services
that went to this individual’s home. The irony of her statement is, she supports
— and the NRA and that right –precisely supports the kind of politics that cuts back
on social services, that cuts back on mental healthcare, that cuts back on public health
interventions. The lack of interventions in the schools, which is partly a resource question
and partly a lack of agenda, but the number of severely depressed, disturbed kids that
simply go through school … Now, most of them don’t shoot anybody, but often they shoot
themselves. Suicide rates are also skyrocketing. It’s not just about mass shootings. Why is there such an opiate epidemic? This
society is sick. The people who only focus on gun control, and here again I would point
to the leadership of the Democratic Party and much of the liberal class that think gun
control is the answer, without dealing with the issue of the rot in the society that is
so screwing up people’s heads that massive drug addiction, deep depression, high suicide
rates … We talk about that healthy society, and yes, of course, let’s also talk about
gun control, but not to talk about the rest, that is hypocrisy. First of all, with regard to Hollywood, it’s
well known, point A, that that particular industry, in the film and television, has
a more than normalized complement of executives at the top who tend to be campaign donors
to the Democratic Party. Point B, as your comment suggested, the cultural products that
they produce tend to glorify violence. Then point C is that the ratings agencies are much
more willing to censor, if you like, scenes of sexuality as opposed to scenes of violence,
and let ‘er rip when it comes to scenes of violence. Then there’s the question of mental health,
which is quite tricky, because on the one hand, it would be a mistake, as the Republicans
are tending to do, to lay this tragedy at the doorstep of mental illness. As suggested,
there are many people who have mental problems who do not necessarily pick up an AR-15, and
march into a public school, and mow people down. At the same time, the Republicans are
pleading inconsistent accounts, as the lawyers like to say, because on the one hand they’re
trying to point the finger of accusation at mental health. On the other hand, they’re
defunding government programs that address mental health. Obviously, they can’t have
it both ways. They are pleading inconsistent accounts, and certainly they need to be held
to account for their inconsistent hypocrisy. This thing that this NRA woman says at the
town hall, where she over and over again called this young man, the shooter, a monster, “He’s
a monster.” I don’t believe that this insane monster should
have ever been able to obtain a firearm. This monster carrying bullets to school, carrying
bullets to school … No, he’s another child of ours. He’s one of
our kids. He wasn’t born a monster. If what he did was monstrous, not if, what he did
was monstrous — but how does he become that kind of monster? She doesn’t want to deal
with that whatsoever. She wants to demonize him. It’s virtually back to this good and
evil argument. Somehow he’s an evil seed, and the good — God, guns, country — we need
to go get these monsters. Of course, to do that, we need our guns. I think what you’re saying is another problem,
as well, which is that it’s well known that in this country, when there are prickly and
tricky political and sociological problems, there is a tendency not to analyze the society,
the soil from which these problems grow, but to denounce individual proxies. You see that
in particular with regard to what happens in the black community, for example. That
is to say, rather than denouncing white supremacy, or the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, ongoing
racism, etc., there is a laser-like focus on the imagined frailties and debilities,
for example, of single black mothers. You see that as not necessarily isolated with
regard to the black community. You see this also with regard to this question of mass
shootings. Rather than do a historical analysis of European settlement, and colonialism, and
dispossession of Native Americans, which would then lead to an indictment of society, it’s
much easier to affix individual blame on a particular teenager, as is happening in Florida
as we speak. Just to pick up on something you said, in
terms of the history of this ideology of the right to have a gun, and how connected it
is with the God, and country, and so on, it wasn’t all that long ago it was considered
a right by a lot of Southerners, white Southerners, they have a right to lynch black people. Sure. Once again, there is a reluctance to
dig too deeply with regard to the nettlesome problems of this society. You see this, as
you have suggested a moment or two ago, with regard to some of the liberals on Capitol
Hill. That is to say, when there is a kind of tragedy that has just unfolded in Florida,
the mantra is, “That’s not who we are.” That is to say, “This is not a problem of these
United States of America and the kind of society that has developed over the decades and centuries
ago.” If you take that particular point of view, that leaves you with an individual analysis
of looking at the real and imagined problems of individuals, which fundamentally does not
get you anywhere, because it does not lead to profound and sweeping changes of society,
which is so desperately needed in this country. Yeah, it leads to more shootings in schools.
Thanks very much for joining us, Gerald. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on The Real News
Network.

Comments

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    roger Brownfield

    Americans don't care about each other. 17 years of using violence as a problem solving tool around the globe has come home. Americans only care about power and that is reflected in how we treat each other.

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    Troy Turton

    As a person with bipolar & clinical depression. This is exactly what I was taking about in debates. About them blaming or using mental illness as an excuse for all these mass murders. Why don't they try figuring out what it is, that causes so many people like myself to have mental illnesses? Like the persons Environment is the number one cause. Being poor, being stressed all the time from being poor. Worrying about how you are going to make ends meet. And how the GOV & Corporations are only trying to make that worse. Particularly the Republicans. And corporations moving to robotics, which is taking away many low paying jobs. That only lower educated people qualify for. And this is just one sector of a persons Environment.

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    John Ellis

    All land, wealth and 95% guns have always
    been owned by the educated upper-half society.
    All 2.3 million humans doing prison labor in USA,
    they are uneducated and impoverished laboring men.

    All 1,150 humans who are gunned down by killer-cops
    each year in USA, they are all impoverished laboring men.

    And so, if you are a poor man and come for a visit to USA,
    take care that you do not act angry, hostile, contemptuous
    or dangerous in the presence of a cop, for most likely you
    will be shot dead. The assumption being that you are about
    to do harm to those of the privileged and educated
    upper-half of society.

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    CobinRain

    The problem is NOT American gun laws; the problem is Americans.

    The US is the most violent country on the planet in quantitive terms and one of the most in qualitative terms as well. Think on this: in his last year in office Barack Obama, the Nobel Peace Laureate, authorised the dropping of over 26000 bombs on some of the poorest people on earth living in countries with which the US is not at war. 90% of casualties( a leaked cia estimate) were " collateral damage". Why are there not millions of Americans in the streets protesting? Calling for Obama to be tried for war crimes? ……exactly…

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    Rhod Jones

    Keep it simple 'testosterone' drives violence, if you allow individuals to purchase high fire rate weapons 'what possibly can go wrong'. People know what goes wrong 'Sandy Hook' et al if a society can do nothing after that then they are burying their heads in the sand. Anybody is capable of becoming a homicidal maniac given the right circumstances, so why do you allow individuals to purchase that size of firepower, would you allow them to acquire nucleur devices: do something! Don't just discuss it and bring up unrelated complications. Simple really.

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    Carol McKee

    I agree that Nik Cruz isn't a 'monster' as much as he is the monstrous result of American god/country/gun culture.
    Until American society loses it's thirst for blood and cultural lunacy, isn't strict gun control a stopgap way to 'keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people', ie: the fearful, depressed, religious, nationalist Trumpist?

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    nathen morris

    the fake shootings that somehow spread like a virus even though military psychological warfare department specifically army is in charge of most of them

  12. Post
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    duck Lamb

    You guys hit the bullseye, but skirted the real underlying factor(you got close) is a spiritual decay of man that makes up society as a whole.the mass shootings are really a small part of the stage ,if one steps back and sees the entire stage and study the main players we can understand what brought us to this point in history.

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    Free Gov't from Wall St!

    Welcome to Market Society! How could you not bring up NEOLIBERALISM?? You're both old enough to remember how everything started to go south from the 80's on in this country.
    "To allow the market mechanism to be the sole director of the fate of human beings and their natural environment …would result in the demolition of society.” ~ Karl Polanyi, 1944

  14. Post
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    John Ellis

    Paul Jay and his guest said not a word about the root cause, making it impossible for them to help viewers reach agreement on the solution.
    For as evidenced by history, this world has a destiny to reach the ultimate conclusion of all the force, violence, power, greed and glory inherent in wealth.

    For wealth is the property we own above what is needed to have a comfortable life. A luxury that my uneducated and impoverished lower-half of society has never known.

    Wealth is plundered property that belongs to the one billion humans suffering hunger.

    Owning wealth makes you most violent and deadly, as it gives you no choice but to have an overpowering desire to destroy anyone or any nation that may harm your wealth.

    Your satanic and greed driven desires are in direct proportion to your wealth. For even thought the educated upper-half of society owns all the land and wealth, they have a satanic desire to reduce their taxes by refusing my 50% working poor the healthcare needed to get a sick kid into the doctor's office.

    In summation, if everyone desired to own only enough for a healthy and comfortable life, there would be no violence, no need for nukes, no wars for invasion and plunder, no hunger and an end to global warming.

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    Stephen Joseph Scott

    Assault weapons MUST go!!! What's also left out of this discussion is the responsibility of "big-pharma." These younger generations have been raised on Ritalin etc., all in the name of profit – supported by states and school administrations across the nation. Yes, the country is very sick, it's called avarice and greed on the part of a-moral corporations running roughshod over a population like nowhere else in the world! It's friggin' sickening and sad. . .

  17. Post
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    Vincenzo

    The John Wayne mentality (Boomer generation) and equivalent violent "symbols" in more recent generations is deeply ingrained in U.S. culture; young males are entrained to a culture of violence at a young age. And he's right about the perpetual war background being part of U.S. culture, where men (and more recently women) now simply assume that this is an integral part of the society's mores. It began here — there were an estimated 80 million indigenous North Americans here in 1500. After the carnage of European diseases and guns, about a million remained standing.

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    Brad Mitchell

    The overall reasons, I believe, for American violence stems from our frontier past and our empirical present and the frustrations in core beliefs due to the American empire collapsing.

  20. Post
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    shadex08

    NRA woman claims that he should never had gotten access to the weapon. Yet, she would not have been supportive of any measures that would have prevented this.

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    LakeWater

    Considering that our law enforcement community is under no obligation to save or protect anyone should be enough of a reason to allow qualified citizens to carry and defend themselves. Found this earlier this morning: Two landmark SCOTUS cases have confirmed that in general, law enforcement at any and every level from town marshal to FBI, ATF, etc. have NO obligition:
    NONE
    ZERO
    NADA
    ZIP
    ZILCH
    to protect or save anyone from any harm:
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County, 1989
    Town of Castlerock v Gonzalez, 2005
    In addition, a US Court of Appeals case preceded these:
    Warren v. District of Columbia, 1981, DC Court of Appeals – it was not appealed to SCOTUS

    Unless there was official, published departmental policy requiring any law enforcement present to protect or save anyone, they have NO legal obligation to do so. They are merely officers of the court that serve the public at large to bring those suspected of criminal acts before the courts.

    Yellow-bellied, liliy-liver cowards? You bet! Legal obligation subject to criminal prosecution or civil tort for failing to act? NONE!

  24. Post
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    Bloginton Blakley

    We are a society built upon, theft, genocide and slavery… all driven by greed.  Do you wonder why our society is beset by violence?  Do you wonder that we spawn "monsters"?  We ARE monstrous.

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    rolento Ong

    It's precisely because the USA society produces monstrous behavior, thats why you cant give them guns! you never know which monster in disguise is gonna reveal itself one day!

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    olzt100

    Canada has a drug problem Canada sees the same movies that the US plays. Canada has video games. Canada took part in the Iraq invasion. Canada doesn't have God in the schools. Canada does not have a mass shooting problem. India does not have a mass shooting problem. The major difference between all three countries is the access to guns. Eighteen year olds can buy a military style rifle in the US but they can't buy a beer.

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    Brian Booker

    This is a model that is broken; whether people admit it they know it’s true. Whenever I mention Capitalism people get bent out of shape so I’ll frame this as our market based neo-classical economic model doesn’t work. The narrative that as individuals we are inherently selfish and because of that individual’s will maximize their utility in the marketplace is a false narrative. When you have 3 individuals that have as much wealth as the bottom half of a countries population there will be violence and this has been medically proven. When you remove the opportunity for an individual to live a meaningful life and you blame that individual for not having a meaningful life you will end up with a country of sick people. I applaud those young adults in Florida because they want a meaningful life experience they don’t want to be preoccupied with death. This is how every young adult that is trying to survive in the inner-cities of this country, in the poor countries of the world and in war torn countries like Syria, Palestine and Yemen feel. It’s a broken model and the fact that we are in the late stages of an extinction event should be more than enough proof of this.

  32. Post
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    Kenneth Edwards

    As a man, you get the message that 'everything's the male's fault,' while women are innocent angels. The male suicide rate is 3.5 times greater than women now. Has society shifted too far the other way? Do antidepressants contribute to lowering the threshold leading to a shooting? If we really believe it's a men's issue, we have to focus more on factors that lead to the despair and rage behind their actions. Also, the general despair deriving from unemployment/underemployment, lack of affordable healthcare, divorce, and crushing debt. One thing is clear, our society is sick and getting sicker. Something else to look at is militarism and how it's glorified: guns and bombs are used to bully other countries into submission. Can one really expect a culture that promotes this to be immune from its consequence?

  33. Post
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    No Way

    The right's instincts drive them towards an authoritarian social structure. Our ancestors from beyond the dawn of humanity existed in a small-group tribal structure with a king and a religious hierarchy. Religion served the purpose of creating a stable social structure, but this system breaks beyond a certain point. If we regress back to some conservative ideal of a tribal structure of 100-150 person tribes, humanity exists in a state of constant warfare and struggle for resources. Civilization exists in spite of these instincts. We have to consciously reject our instincts that no longer help humanity. Our instinct to tribalism that culminates in wars with other tribes is going to end our species either directly through nuclear apocalypse or indirectly by distracting from the real threats, climate and resource management, that humanity faces. Modern values, useful values can't be derived from ancient rulebooks that were written for a completely different environment than the one we're in.

  34. Post
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    Sydney V.

    Faith is believing in things for which there is no evidence, and often despite direct evidence to the contrary. Let's use facts and leave the faith for the gullible.

  35. Post
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    gerri577

    The level of hatred and hostility in America toward the world is through the roof. This has lead to more aggression, and the fact that mass shootings are committed by males exclusively, is simply an indicator that males are taking their aggression out on the public differently than woman. Perhaps woman are taking their aggression out on their own children? Maybe there's a correlation between more mass shootings and more child abuse cases committed by woman.

  36. Post
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    Gnostic light

    One of your best discussions, and one of the few on this subject that takes a more complete look at what’s going on. Good work.

  37. Post
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    Cynthia Johnson

    We live in a society where the normalized solution to every problem is to take a pill and zone out until things become completely unbearable. And folks engage in endless debate about how such things can happen? Gee I wonder.

  38. Post
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    jones1351

    The second amendment consolation prize for lost wages and standard of living wedded to the prevailing belief that a 'real' man solves his problems with force. Add to that a sense of entitlement which says, 'if we do a thing, it's not wrong, even if we condemn and even execute others for doing it.'
    What could possibly go wrong?

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    SAM DUNBAR

    Anyone can make a shotgun in minutes for under $10 at menards! Or 3D print one now! As long as the corrupt government has em, we must have em, period. The end of gun violence begins with the god damned government putting theirs down first. If they got rid of them, so would mobsters and sickos.

  42. Post
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    John Mastroligulano

    You've done some real shit reporting in the past pushing for the giving up of Rights to the government which the Rights are meant to insulate us from happening this conversation was actually helpful giving real context to the issue at hand instead of giving more power to people acting as psycho & sociopaths which is what the 2nd amendment is meant to protect us from, to aid us in ending so we don't end up like the people Hitler,Stalin/Mao,Pot etc. didn't like. If people payed closer attention to history they'd realize that Hitler didn't just come up out of no where he didn't just say give me your guns now bam there were false flags & other events allowed or fostered to happen in order to get the people to allow the disarming & genocide of people like how native americans were depicted as savages to convince other people to commit genocide against them.

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    grumpy old fart

    We need to stop drugging our kids. When hey get out of line, put a boot up their asses. We didn't have any mass shootings in my day, and every kid over 10 years old had a gun.

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    The Forest Revealed

    Leave the #Hyperbole out of your #News (?) and try to remember that the United States is a #ConstitutionalRepublic and not a #Democracy (try reading #Plato's #Republic if you don't understand the difference). #ThumbsDown since I found this piece lacking on #facts and rich on #opinion and think it a deliberate attempt at #brainwashing since it was clearly #propaganda. Sorry, I usually agree with most of what the Real News puts out. I won't respond to any comments by any other than the Staff or The Real News.

  46. Post
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    ALX Armed Liberation Xecutive

    ©™ ALX 💥 Armed 🔫 Liberation 🕶 Xecutive 🕴 Observation:
    We know the NRA mantra that guns don't kill people people kill people.
    However, guns make it easier to kill people. So in keeping with the second amendment, simply ban all firearms that are multishot. Limit Everyone to single shot pistols rifles and shotguns. That's the type of weapons the writers of the Constitution had available to them.
    Nobody wants to propose this however. And I'm surprised myself that someone with my moniker, ALX, would be posting it as an idea.

    Further, Martin Luther King Jr in his 1967 Riverside Church speech spoke of America as the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet. That's true still, more so perhaps. When armed People grow up seeing their government solve their foreign affairs through armed military intervention it sinks in to solve problems with weapons.

  47. Post
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    Hippy Gypsie

    This is by far the best discussion that I've seen so far on this Topic…Finally, addressing the underlying issues…and noting just how many issues there are!

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    Andres Villarreal

    There are serious problems in Gerald Horne's use of statistics. A 50/50 participation of men and women in any activity is not the yardstick you should use to understand it, no matter the activity. Do we care whether some women were hidden under the KKK masks? Do we care whether the people marking men with white feathers for not going to fight a war were men or women? Do we care if the women participating in the corruption of our political system are in the front lines, receiving bribes and voting for wars, or quietly pressuring their chairmen husbands towards illegality and immorality?

    The conclusion that the mass shooters are reacting to gender based problems is not supported by the premise that all mass shooters are men.

  50. Post
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    A Change

    Excellent, excellent interview.  The elite want guns taken from the masses; however, look at England.  In England, the masses don't have guns and yet the elite – the monarchy – are protected by guns.  So, the belief of the elites, and the MSM, is that guns are good for protecting the elite but not okay for protecting the masses.

  51. Post
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    Jeff Mullen

    Why single out the Democrats? As was pointed out in this video, it's not as though the Republicans are any better.

    You want to talk about rot in society? Whom do you think is giving us rot in society? Trumptax is a perfect example. You cut social services to take away the protections that keep the overpaid from hoarding their excessive wealth.

    On the one hand, they're blaming Democrats for not dealing with mental health, and on the other they're taking away mental health services. Yet, somehow, Democrats are entirely responsible for this. Yeah. Right. And I'm the pope.

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    Andres Villarreal

    Continuing with Horne's failures, he has to show how the new wars are any different from the 10000 or so years of wars since before Babylon. The wars he mentions, like Syria, Afghanistan, Lybia and Iraq, and the shootings for political reasons like the ones he mentions in Texas and the Pulse bar, are not at all different from the imperialistic wars everywhere and the political and religious massacres everywhere. Why did he not mention similar events in Israel, for example?

    The two points he has is that the US citizens should acknowledge that the US is an empire and that there is an inherent violent trait in the US psyche, one that can explode in any place, at any time, and the perpetrator will probably be who you least expect. That is why you do not want to give guns to any but the best trained and verified individuals.

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    N.A. McIntosh

    The introduction mentions democrats, I agree if he means the neo-liberal democrats that in reality are republicans. As I have seen it, since the presidential debates were hijacked from the League of Women Voters in the late 80's and legislatively in the 90's, the democratic party has served as the people's "Good-cop" to the republican "Bad-cop"; when needed to have people vote against their self-interests.
    Healthcare including Mental Health Care is the answer if you can only give a simple answer. The dismantling of meaningful mental healthcare for the regular person started in the 70's in California under Reagan and was expanded with his ascension to the Federal level of influence.
    Bring back and initiate proper legislation that minimizes the influence of lobbying interests and big $ in politics and the processes associated.
    This would allow funding to enforce the laws that have been passed, in the ways they were intended, and to support other changes the people would see fit.
    OK now I'm gonna watch it….. : )

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    [email protected] AND BONEZZ PRODUCION

    1 Peter 5:8 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:rev 12:7-10And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    if there was war in heaven ,you can bet your last buck there will be war as the lord of war is on earth .

  58. Post
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    peter

    There are a lot of misconceptions about crime in America though. It has been dropping since the 90s. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
    So why does everyone feel like they are surrounded by chaos? Who is telling you this over and over?

  59. Post
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    wkmac2

    Good discussion. Having lived through the coldwar era watching the glorification of the Red Dawn scenario and then the further glorification of the war mindset, what we see now comes as no surprise. And do we dare discuss the creativity crushing education system that is built not to truly educate young people but instead to create Corp worker drones that do little more than perpetuate the whole damn thing? If kids aren't snapping in violence to each other, they just outright kill themselves or numb themselves with prescription drugs.

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    Blackatchaproduction

    It's not a gun problem. It's a "white" guy with access to guns problem. Because we know they cant handle reality when shit doesn't go their way. Lost a job? In financial ruin? Equality feeling like discrimination? Any time they face those things. EVERYBODY has to die according to them

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    KEV LAR AKA THE SUPREME TROUBLE MAKER

    Where are all the interviews with the shooter's bullys? You can't tell me that that large eared kid wasn't bullied. I am not making any excuses for the horrific thing he did.

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    Sandy

    All the talk in world will not save anyone's life until we ban all automatic weapons immediately then pass laws to enforce registration & licensing of handguns immediately

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    Matt Soper

    In my home I have a first aid kit in case I need to treat a minor injury, a fire extinguisher in case I need to put out a fire, and I have a firearm in case I need to defend myself. Shit happens – one should have the tools to deal with said shit.

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    Spirit of white Christmas

    It has nothing to do with guns. The problem we have is society has changed into a murderous society where children are growing up watch and playing killing, Hollywood is the blame as well as game companies.We need to shut Hollywood down and change game regulations.

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    Elizabeth Alexander

    We need to get rid of assault weapons right now. Then we can figure out how to help the mentally challenged men in our society. That kid should have never got his hands on any weapon, let alone an assault weapon. I grew up in a culture that had guns in many TV shows and movies and it was the men who were revered for finding ways to not use a gun to solve problems even though they had them. My generation did not spin out of control even though we saw the best people in society assassinated in front of our eyes and a war in Vietnam which was brutal and despicable. The guns need to go, period.

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    progressive gen x'er channel

    A lot of these behaviors are from a more and more un blanaced, un equal society. Great article!! Love TRN!!! 🙂

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    Prince Pouncer

    Wow! I couldn't ever imagine that Americans , a First world industrialised people could devolve into this level of barbaric cavemenry…..But after all the country was founded on pure blood shedding

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    Al Bee

    What is being misdiagnosed as mental illness is the constant indoctrination by our culture equating guns with masculinity which incites these mass murderers and the NRA is greatly responsible along with every gun crazy video game, super-hero box office blockbuster movie, military praising event, etc.But yes, the military is quite insane collectively and it is contagious.

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    Leigh Foulkes

    Most boys in this country have been ignored and pushed aside (specially in school). If you are male and not a perfect prodigy, then you are ignored by the school and are seen a cannon fodder for the war machine. Women are primed to be perfect savant princes and our boys primed to be idiot cannon fodder (both sides brainwashed loonies).

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm seeing more and more unstable young girls as well. Our boys are more aggressive but are girls are just as loony and in need of psychological evaluation too. How can they be sane with all the school shootings going on, it screws up everyone.

    All I can say it, a good guy with a gun can have a really bad day but a good guy without a gun can't do something as stupid as shooting people up.

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    VPX4

    They want gun control but don't want to address the reasons behind America's obsession with guns. There is a lack of trust for the government and frankly who could blame them? The government has done nothing but cut away at things we all consider sacred. They're spying on us, challenging net neutrality, denying sick people healthcare, trying to destroy entitlements, dismantling unions, favoring the wealthy and implementing policy that advances corporate interests at the expense of the people.

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    Crouching Wombat hidden Quoll

    Military control first (violent foreign policy)
    Change violent Hollywood images (constant glorified gun violence)
    Give young men a prosperous opportunity. (A decent job)
    Give fellow citizens the time of day
    (Do not fear saying "how are you")

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    James Graham

    Hegel (I'm not recommending the Wiki version) says of good and evil…."here awakes the deepest contradiction." He says he cannot find any principle to determine it…..and leaves it up to "the agent" to decide what is good or evil for them. To unpack that a bit, Hegel would say human existence, the human spirit, as such, evades causal explanation. But that is not the same as saying our observable material conduct and behaviour is without cause. Say you feel hungry. It may be that is because you haven't eaten. Likewise, if you feel unwell and go to the doctor it may be the cause can be diagnosed. However, certain consistent and appropriate standards of knowledge must apply….when it comes to claims about causal explanations. All too often in the popular media, assumptions are made where A=B; based on random associations when they are not equivalent and not causal at all. People jump to conclusions. The truth is, in order to gain any kind of valuable information at all….about what is raised in this video…about the causes of good and evil, then adequate research must be conducted. There is a difference between what is demonstrated….some result or good or successful outcome or something evil or some failure….and it's causal explanation. Clawing around in the dark is not going to help to avoid these tragedies.

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    undeadpresident

    If you want gun control start by getting the military industrial complex under control first. They straight up give heavy weapons to terrorists.

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    nagone11

    Dr Horne hits the nail right here…Society is producing such people. This kid is nothing more than a terrorist(like ISIS) who has done what others have done since the dawn of this Republic when angered and desirous to to make a point and an example. These guns are in the hands of Americans…white Americans the most, not only to protect but to terrorize, and we're going to have to deal with this, and come to terms truthfully if we are going to make any realistic headway on this issue.

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    Patricia Branigan

    Violence comes from the top. We are perpetually at war murdering women and children and leveling cities and civilizations. We exalt war in our media so we exalt violence. Our government uses violence as a solution to economic problems. Our media exalts that reasoning for violence. And not only that we are perpetually at war and yet war barely touches our society. Our cites are not bombed. Our children are not laying bloody and broken in to rubble. We are a broken society and it comes from the top down. Our congress is broken and bribed. Our rich are profligate and greedy. Our presidency is inhabited by one of the most profligate and greedy families ever to have erupted in our society. And so our people are dying by their own hand, drugs or each others hands, and there is no mystery as to why. when a society becomes only self involved so do the people become self involved and it is a short step to chaos.

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    Timothy Allen Campbell GoTimothy

    The people against gun control are just as responsible for the people who were killed in Florida as the shooter himself. In fact the shooter can be labeled as insane and will not have to go to prison. However the people who are against gun control are just as responsible for the shooting and because they are not insane they can go to prison for second-degree murder. In fact One account of second-degree murder for every child killed. And because there isn't a statue of limitation on murder, those against gun control can be charged with one account of second-degree murder for every person killed by a gun since the day they started to go against gun control.

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    Yuri muckraker

    excellent report! this calls for The Real News, Jimmy Dore Show, Shadowproof's Unauthorized Disclosure, and others to invite on Mark Ames, whose book "Going Postal: Rage, Murder, and Rebellion, From Reagan's Workplaces to Clinton's Columbine and Beyond" addresses all those issues that Paul and Gerald touched on. The Real News invited him once to talk about back when Jessica Devreaux was hosting the program but the interview was too short and didn't do justice to Ames's amazing sociological accomplishment. please invite him on Real News, do a Reality Asserts itself, and when it comes to anything about Russia,Georgia,Ukraine and the former USSR states, he is your man to go and do objective mythbusting.

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    Nicole

    the economic policies of the democratic party over the past twenty five years have been a HUGE contributor to the depression, drug addiction, and suicide in this country.  as all of us have seen over the past two years, the democratic party refuses to take any responsibility for the state of this country or our current president.  it's typical distraction politics…look at the mental health problem, but not the fact that we caused it.  i grew up in northeast OH; the opioid epidemic has been raging there for DECADES.  this is not something that happened in 2016.  in the rust belt, we have watched our country and our politicians abandon us for decades.  so we are killing ourselves with guns and drugs because even the president that ran on hope and change gave us no hope and no change.  this country is definitely sick, and the people that are running the show are the sickest of all.

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    Syntax

    Atomization breeds psycho-pathological behavior. A war of all against all. The logical conclusion of the cult of the self. The United States is going to implode and collapse in on itself. The Twin Towers were a symbolic message.

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    Jimmy Gentile

    And where there is no vision the people perish. I think JFK said that in some speech years ago. Seems very true today. From the bible.

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    AliceMarieM

    yeah, just because gun control works in Japan, Australia, UK, Canada, and everywhere else, does not mean that it would work in the United States.

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    Nathan Fielure

    Rise of feminism cause men to become mass murderers. That means women had been secretly committing mass murders nobody knows about before feminism. How about men's obsession with the size of their dicks being the problem?

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    RD Patterson

    Cultural rot combined with mass amounts of guns. Sums up America. Our worship of the professional warrior is a primary reason as well.

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    Kebo Boke

    Yeah, all solid points, but the UK has seen some serious economic and social devastation in many areas of the country.
    Healthcare has been under attack, preventative programs cut back.
    American media is a staple for most in the UK. The UK has its own history of oppression and exploitation amongst its own people as well as around the world, and yet somehow no one is shooting up schools.

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    SeaRose

    Super excellent points made in this. I wish the mass shooting discussion was covered like this everywhere. However Paul Jay, you went off tbe rails a bit with the "right to lynch" bit, thatwas never a founding cpnstitutional right of the United States, there is no 2nd ammendment "right to lynch", that is an extremely weak metaphor 😔

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    Robotix

    Men clinging to guns because of feminism. This actually makes less than zero sense. Guns make the the fight between a man and a woman close to even. . . where as a woman stands a minuscule chance in a physical altercation.

    Other than that I agree with much of what he says

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    Martin Bring

    Yes, men are clinging with bitterness to their guns because they can't handle feminist ideology and man shaming or women in the workforce as they were during and prior to WWII as 'factor girls.' That's Real Psychobabble..

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    taino xaragua

    do we have a black men problem in this country or a white men problem in this country? let's keep it 100/100 please. I believe if that was the black men who did it. the entire race would be in bigger trouble.

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    MountainDew7

    What "faith" are you talking about? Empirical evidence overwhelming shows that gun bans do not lead to a reduction in murder or crime in any country where they have been inacted. In fact just the opposite. Do your homework. Law abiding citizens carrying guns makes communities safer and provides a degree of protection against oppressive governments.

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    Taylor Phoenix

    When having conversations about the “gender of violence” we never take into consideration social restraints as they exist at present, and why we are not seeing external expressions of violence being portrayed by women, or any other gender other than masculine identified males. Because we seem to forget that the culture does not empower women and females to external expressions of violence. This does not mean to say that women don’t want to grab guns and shoot up public spaces in mass, this is just to say that nothing in their socialization has prepared them for the reality that this is even a possibility. So we have to stop acting like there is something going on in the world of men (beyond structural design) that is intricately linked to expressions of violence, and we need to instead understand that with increased female participation in all aspects of society we will begin to see in a very short period of time the participation of women in roles of mass violence.
    Why do men kill? Because the culture empowers them to do so. With increased female participation and increased gender equality we will soon begin to see the emergence of female serial killers, female mass murderers, female mass shooters and the like I guarantee it.
    As a black American I could not have dreamed of being a doctor before a certain date in our societies history and before the creation of laws that permitted me to do so, but just as crucially I could not envision myself as being a doctor before there was the capacity of the cultural imagination to conceive of a black American as a doctor. So at the point at which the cultural imagination expands to conceive of the possibility of female violence and we begin to see not just the emergence, but the saturation of female heroes, and female representations of violence in pop culture and the culture gets its first hefty dose of women kicking ass, and taking names we will begin to see expressions of female violence starting with young girls who are most impressionable by mass representation in popular media and culture, and it will grow with that generation forward.
    It may appear to be mundane in in the beginning, perhaps fights in schools between young girls will begin to rise, you will hear about girl gangs beginning to take the country by storm, and lastly you will hear about armed female vigilantes and lone wolves shooting up public spaces in what will be a slew of new data that will take our intellectual and academic institutions by storm, grabbing onto the edge of their seats to keep up with this sea of changing social dynamics that everybody seemingly couldn’t see coming.
    I’m here to tell you, it’s coming.

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    Guy Lemay

    "Gun Control will Not Cure a Society that Produces Monstrous Behavior"

    That is pretty much all we need to know here; we all learned from the examples set by those in charge and generate the trend in the first place.

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