Oct. 24 Colorado Chemical Demilitarization Citizens’ Advisory Commission Meeting (2018)

Oct. 24 Colorado Chemical Demilitarization Citizens’ Advisory Commission Meeting (2018)


okay, just let me know when you want me to begin. Will do. Good evening. This is the regularly scheduled citizens advisory commission. before we get started into our usual
agenda for this evening we have a conference call that we are going to do
with the Dr. Charles Ball from OSD and Mr. Michael Abaie from the program officer
for ACWA and I will turn it over to them to start with their presentation I think
you all be able to hear it from our speakerphone here. Thank you, Irene um can
you hear me yes okay first of all I want to thank you for allowing me to address
you this evening I want to apologize to you for the situation that we find
ourselves in naming the need to ship more hydrolysate off site than we
anticipated indeed more than we had told you that we would need to ship our
failure to stay within the tune of 50 thousand gallon limit is something for
which I take full responsibility there’s really not much an excuse for it now
within this bad situation obviously there is some good news which is that
the primary reason that we have so much hydrolysate is that
we’re destroying munitions far more rapidly than we but it’s also results
frankly at poor planning with respect to bringing the BT up and running quickly
enough in other words we didn’t plan for success and this is already caused us as
I think many of you know to slow down destruction of the you nisshin’s which
of course is already causing us lost money cuz time is obviously money and
it’s all now what the other problem that has arisen as a result of this of course
is that we now have the need to further empty the tanks in preparation for the
integrated facility demonstration that you know is up coming here soon so it’s
it’s a situation as I said that I find unacceptable and yet one that I you know
I can’t say anything other than you know it’s something that that ultimately I’m
as the responsible official has to take the blame for and one thing that has
allowed me to get off get off the ceiling here from my disappointment is
that as you know we do have a new PEO and I have conveyed to him and no
uncertain terms that situations like this simply can’t be allowed to repeat
themselves and he has assured me that he shares my assessment of the situation is
and is going to take measures to ensure that this doesn’t occur again so I’m
gonna let Mike Bay give you his perspective him and he and I will stay
on in a line as long as you would like us to to answer what I’m sure will be
many questions that you have thank you thank you dr. ball good evening members
of the Colorado CAC this is Michael Bay it’s a unfortunate pleasure that I have
to introduce myself this way to you all I would have preferred to actually come
out and be me everyone in person I believe actually I was scheduled to be
out there and your your December meeting to meet you all in person and I still
I’m planning on being out there I believe it’s December 12th that you all
are having your next Cacnea so I do plan to participate from there am I correct
on the date yes thank you as dr. ball mentioned I too am very
distraught with the situation we find ourselves in in which that we have to
come back to you all in less than a couple of months to ask yet again to
ship hydrolysate off the pcap facility let me put a little bit of context into
what dr. ball was mentioning there’s actually two two issues that caused us
this one is obviously good news that we’re destroying more munitions and
creating more hydrolysate the in the poor planning side are the two issues
that I want to add some context to one is there’s a sophisticated model that
the team uses to determine how much hydrolysate is created every time a
based on number of munitions that we destroy the input to the model was
erroneously put in there based on historical numbers of what they were
destroying prior to my arrival now they were putting in their 250 munitions per
day which was their steady state average instead of what they were actually
planning and working towards which is well above 350 to 400 rounds per day so
that erroneous input in addition to the fact that we actually didn’t start the
bio treatment area early enough caused us to have a lot more hydrolysate
and we are getting prepared to have the integrated facility demonstration which
is part of the be permit for the state of Colorado we need to run the facility
at max capacity so that we can generate enough effluent so that we can measure
those and send that so that we can get that that permitting done so when we do
ramp up to its full capacity they know how much we’re actually committing so
this is what’s causing us to have to actually ship more hydrolysate in the
meantime what we have done is we’ve actually decreased our plant throughput
so that we don’t exceed the numbers of amount of hydrolysis that we hold in our
30 days storage tank when I went through that and understood what was going on I
was extremely upset by there are those two errors one poor planning for the BGA
and second the erroneous numbers that they use in the modeling simulation
piece of it so recognizing that like a COBOL I too am at fault being that I am
here and we are have committed to ensure that we do everything we can to process
the hazards to hydrolysate the secondary Pisa or the back end of the Tcat on site
you know we need to make sure that these don’t happen again so in the meantime I
have asked that we look at you know what can we do to ensure that this doesn’t
happen again when we do run the two ICB units at max capacity there is enough
capacity to handle the entire load that we generate
if we run approximately 650 to 700 rounds per day
so anything above and beyond that we would create additional to date you know
we’re we believe they anticipated steady states of the plant will probably be in
that in that realm so we don’t see a need for it but that doesn’t give me the
warm and fuzzy that I was require so I’ve asked the team to put together a no
risk mitigation so that we don’t come to this state again a couple of things that
we can do is to see if we can convert ICP three and four into select storage
so that we can store up to roughly three hundred and twenty thousand gallons in
those two facility we have estimate of roughly three million dollars and it
will take about seven to eight months to convert those into Flex storage capacity
so we’re going to undertake to ensure that we can use those two as flex
storage for future purposes the need for the Flex storage would be if when the
plant goes down for routine maintenance we won’t bring the bth down we will
actually use if we have stored additional hydrolysate in those ICB will
be used to feed the BGA and to continually use the the microbes to
destroy the hydrolysis so that’s that’s a mitigation plan that we have in place
that we’re going to actually evaluate and put in place so that we don’t get
into this state of having to come to you all and ask for us to be able to ship
these hydraulics so again just like dr. ball we are extremely upset that uh that
we have to do this i wish i could tell you that the BGA was up and functioning
at 100% right now unfortunately take another two two-and-a-half weeks three
weeks to get it fully functioning to get to that hundred percent right now it’s
running at about 25 percent it’s showing good progress which is a good thing
we’re not having issues with it that is a good thing so hopefully within
the next two or three weeks we’ll get it up that 75% and and that we can start
eliminating the risk of having to have to come and ask for another shipment but
please recognize that for us to be able to get our party permit we and to
support the IFV we just need to be able to have additional space in the 30
gallon tank so that we could so that we could conduct those those IFP to get the
plant in a position to be able to get that permitting done I hope I’ve
provided your overall view of where we are and how we ended up here again my
apologies thank you very much I think there are several questions from either
eat either of you or both of you and I’m going to ask for your advantage I’m
happy to just curious is the video live so can they see us or is it theirs there
is no video feed for us we only are able to call in by telephone okay thank you
this is Terry Hart County Commissioner here in Pueblo and a vice chair of the
CAC thank you both for being on the phone today
yeah we to deal with a serious issue like this we prefer one or both of you
be here to discuss it face to face but I understand that that’s not always
possible we are planning on our next CAC meeting on December 12th but we had a
discussion earlier today depending on how conversations go today
and tonight and how things evolve over the next few days a few weeks we may
schedule something in between now and the twelfth and so I just want
to make sure you folks are aware of that secondly again I also want to thank you
for the sincere apology we do appreciate that and I want to make sure that you
thoroughly understand that we understand it we had a good discussion earlier this
week we have a very good and I guess I would couch it is robust conversation
earlier today and we went over a good deal the details that you folks have
given us as to what got us to the place where we are now and we understand it we
don’t like it we accept what the facts are as it has been outlined to us please
understand that the history of this program you probably both already know
this but the history of this program is as this community is adamantly and I
want to underline adamantly opposed to transportation and there’s a number of
reasons for that I think we’re on record for those reasons so I won’t go into
those details now but we are very very much opposed to it and when the NRC in
their report fairly recently indicated that a fail-safe system of some sort
needed to be put in place and shipment was considered as that probable failsafe
solution we as a community were very angry very upset and we made that
crystal clear to mr. Conrad wine at the time and the reason why we were upset
was we frankly didn’t accept the fact that it would only be utilized in a in
case of the severe emergency we felt that there was a very high chance that
if shipment was if the docks were constructed so that shipment was
possible that shipment would be utilized as an option for reasons other than
severe emergency what I like to tap has more of a
convenience purpose rather than an emergency and frankly folks that’s where
I am where my belief set is right now I believe that this these shipments are
being done for the convenience of the folks who are working on the system
including you folks and that is costing my community very much and it is putting
my community and several other communities in a great deal of risk and
I don’t think that that’s an adequate reason for exercise and shipment we
tried to be as patient as we could work in our way through these things we know
that we’re not the final decision-makers on these kind of things but we
understand the law and the system and frankly some of us have been involved in
this project from day one and we know that the conversation has always been
that the knees wishes desires of the community would be very taken very
seriously and heavily considered and we have had a pretty good relationship with
DoD and aqua and the army and Beck’s whole to go over the course of this
project there’s been a few challenges as we’ve gone but we’ve been able to
navigate those challenges and we felt that we have had a pretty good trust
relationship going on between the community and the DoD and aqua and
Bechtel I have to tell you I don’t feel that way tonight I feel like the trust
and faith that I put into you folks has been violated and so I’m very upset
about it we understand we heard the presentation
of the need to move towards the IFD we get that frankly we are delighted to
hear that the front end of the facility is processing weapons faster than
done than before and we’re delighted that things are working that well we
have always put our our full faith in the functionality of the PCAT facility
on the other hand we fail and I totally fail to understand how you can design or
operate a facility and think that you can pump more in on the front end and
not take it out the back side and if that failure does occur yes
mistakes have happened and so you need to go ahead and figure out how it
happened make sure it doesn’t happen again
but by our calculation it’s not a little mistake
we had some mistakes that occurred fairly recently and the first shipment
was done I believe to the tune of about 250,000 gallons of hydrolysate we had
the second hoops earlier this year and we were told no we need to ship we need
ship again but 250,000 gallons and while we I have to admit we were never
promised that it wouldn’t happen again we heard pretty substantial statements
that it wasn’t likely to happen again and that this was a one-time thing so
now we’re up to 500,000 gallons of hydrolysate and now we’re being told
that we need to do another shipment up to another 250,000 gallons that’s
750,000 gallons of hydrolysate and we made it grow it clear the last time that
we thought that that was the last one and we really didn’t want to hear this
again and and here we are dealing with it again the IFD is something that we
feel isn’t just important to you folks it’s important to
us too we are we are partners in this project and we very much want success in
this project but my feeling is and we had a discussion about this earlier
today that you do have another option other than shipment as of today
regardless of how we got here we’re talking about what’s the path forward
and I believe that the proper path forward is to delay the IFD if you delay
the IFD that allows you to bring the bio treatment system up to speed and allows
you to begin draining off the backlog of hydrolysate that you have in your 30 30
days storage tanks and we believe it’s a math equation to determine at what rate
you can continue to operate the front end of the of the plant in order to be
able to continue to function but at the same time reduce the volume of
hydrolysate that’s in the 30-day tanks until you get to what we were calling
earlier today the sweet spot where you want to be which is my understanding is
someplace around the 50% filled or 50% empty level for the 30 day storage tanks
and we think that’s possible the only thing that is keeping that from
happening is your desire to go ahead and proceed with the IFD we had a good
conversation earlier today about the parameters of the Rd MD permit that you
are under and the limitations of that the time limitations of that but I’ve
also wanted to find out of those potential extensions of time and how
much time that you have so that I could determine in my mind
whether a delay in the IFD was feasible and the information that I’ve gathered
so far I think the answer to that is yes you could delay the IFD and frankly
that’s exactly what I would like to see and I think that my fellow members on
the CAC would like to see is rather than doing a quick jump for convenience
purposes so that the IFD can take place when it’s currently scheduled simply
reschedule the IFD use the bio treatment system the ibi cds get them up to speed
make sure that they’re functional we also feel that this is still a pilot
plant that’s the nature of the RD&D permit and we feel very strongly that
other things could happen mistakes can happen failures can happen in a
complicated machine like this and we accept that we feel like this is a
created problem and if you start if you start having put a bandaid on problems
that are created rather than problems that simply happen then the likelihood
of having another problem come up it could be a crisis as is getting higher
and so we don’t like that at all I think that that’s basically a nutshell I will
turn it over to my fellow CAC members but that is my request I am pleased that
you say I heard it a couple of times that you’re asking for permission from
us to allow this delay allow this shipment and I for one would not grant
it if it is in my power to say no I intend to say no and it is nothing
derogatory with respect to you folks you focusing like fine folks
Mike I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting you yet but Charles I have had a
chance to meet you and your good folks and the folks that were working with
here on the ground very good very competent folks even the
best the folks can make mistakes and we get
that and so it’s nothing personal you’re doing your job I’m doing mine
mine is to protect my community and I think that this is bad for my community
and I don’t want it to happen and so basically those are my opening comments
do you have any comments that you want to make sure that wall you want me he
wants to respond now or at the end of sure you can respond now and then we can
go on to the next question okay well first of all thank you for you know
being so candid and what your concerns are you know you said something that
really resonated with me which is this is not a little mistake it’s a big
mistake and I could not agree with you more but I do want to emphasize that we
need you not we probably have we certainly have different definitions of
what constitutes convenience we do not regard shipping hydrolysate off-site as
something that we think that we have the license to do on a routine basis or that
we do it lightly and I and I guess I would disagree with you that we’re doing
it for convenience because the necessity to destroy these munitions as quickly
and safely as possible is not something that I know you don’t take it lightly we
don’t take it lightly but it has as I’ve mentioned before when I’ve been there
you know implications beyond you know just a question of convenience it means
a loss of you know least when we have to slow down because we can’t ship
hydrolysate you obviously mean that we lose money we also lose international
reputation because we’re not destroying the nisshin’s as rapidly as we could
which is what we’ve committed to the OPCW and again I am very cognizant as
I’m sure you all are that the money that we’re entrusted with
here to destroy the stockpile is a precious resource that is being could be
used for other purposes within the department and most importantly in my
mind for things like letting this equipment better weaponry for our
soldiers in the field so I don’t think that it’s a zero-sum game here where we
can simply afford to delay something because I just don’t think that we can
we can without the implications that I just articulated so again I don’t think
that I would not say do we think this is for convenience and I and I’m totally
you know began committed to ensuring that we have excess capacity in the DTA
and that you know we’re planning for contingencies that go way beyond what we
think is kind of the high-end of destruction so that again we’re in the
position that we had more significant margins of error in both calculations
and in terms of the volume that we have so Mike do you want to add anything to
that yes yes I do so so Terry I want to add a couple of things first I again
besides apologizing I have to really you said that we have eroded your trust in
us and that’s a very hard spot for me to be in since I’ve only been on the
position for less than six weeks so you know the actions that I have taken in
those six weeks to get you to that point that you have lost or yep that would
lost your trust is a significant facts for me just just to add a couple of
things that dr. ball mentioned with regard to convenience if you can imagine
as a new program executive officer I have to actually go through
the army chain as well as the OSD chain and explaining that we have to ship yet
another 250 gallons of hydrolysate that is a novel that I would not want my
worst enemies to experience so those are not easy things to do besides answering
to you all I have to answer to lots of senior leaders within the Army
as well at OSD to explain how we got to this state and
why we are having to shift these additional 250,000 gallons and those
have not been easy thanks for for me as a new person on the job so so you don’t
think that this is a convenience thing because if you have gone through the
things that I’ve gone through in the last week or so just to be able to
articulate the need and the necessity because I’m held accountable now you
know there’s no one else but me on this as the program executive officer so I
have to explain and why those mistakes happen they’re not little mistakes I
don’t think I categorize them as little and then what I’m putting in place to
ensure that those mistakes don’t happen again so my name is written down on a
piece of paper to ensure that no we put in place rules to ensure that we don’t
use this as a convenient measure so I don’t take this very lightly at all it
has not been a pleasant week we can ask for me either
having to work through with the contractors and my team that’s on the
ground over there to recognize first how we got to this was uh was not easy and
then having to go up the chain to get approval has not been easy
so please recognize that we don’t take these things very lightly because it is
not a very convenient thing for us to do it’s a lot more convenient for me
to be say that hey we’re going to process everything right on facility as
the plant was designed so that is the mechanism I would love to use instead of
saying that we’re going to ship everything off you know as you mentioned
this is a pilot plant you know not no other plants like this exist so yes we
are going to make mistakes I’m the one who asked I actually could go up and
explain and ensure that we don’t make the same mistakes again so so please
know that I’m working very diligently to ensure that we put in place and again
the mitigation plan to using ICB – I’m sorry three and four
as flex storage is as forward plus so that we do not come back to you all and
say hey guess what we made another mistake again so we’re trying to figure
out within our own footprint how do we ensure that we can take on the back end
of the process and make it so do a more self self-reliant I hope that helps so
you all recognize the things that I have to do to – even before I come to you all
the masks that say we need to ship this thing over thank you and what I think I
do is to have everyone who hang on the CAC who has questions that they want to
ask is to raise those questions and then you can answer them and then if we have
time yet we will go back for further questions and and commentary so I’m
going to turn it over again to John Norton who’s a member of our CAC yeah hi
this is John Norton and we were told at the permit working group bug group
meeting today that using the IC bees was not practical that the the work that
would be required would be very extensive and it probably
would not be done in time to solve the problem so that may not be an option
also one other thing had there been extra storage a year ago the hydrolysate
that was sent to Port Arthur could have been transferred to another tank and and
probably processed during the downtime any consideration that you might build
more storage in case other problems develop in the next couple of years so
that we don’t have spend three and a half million dollars to ship all these
tanker trucks to Texas and have it incinerated let me see if I can answer a
couple of those questions John one is I have not heard that we cannot use those
I had a pretty deep discussion with the team they are evaluating to see that
there is fixes that they have to do it will take I believe I already mentioned
seven to eight months and roughly three million dollars to convert the I CDs
into holding Flex tanks it’s not happen overnight we’ve explored other
possibilities of storage facility it will actually take longer I even asked
why don’t we bring you know tanker trucks and build retaining walls the
walls so that we can just Park tanker trucks there to get the permitting in
place for all those things just as lengthy as looking at converting ICB
three and four into single I’m sorry you say eta three and four know the ICB
disaster and probably the entire thing is called a BPA but because it has the
brine system in the backend but the actual the unit itself is called an ICBM
attack new for me as well cool so actually we
even looked at what would it take to bring ICB 3 up online just to have one
of the additional units to have you know 30 percent more capacity to handle
hydrolysate the problem is if it becomes which you certainly do that the length
of time is also the same as converting in the ICB 3 & 4 into storage facility
but having it there and trying to bring it up to you know what isn’t needed
if it’s not going to be quick as you all have seen with no current ICB to wanted
to to come up to speed it’s going to take a long time so that doesn’t really
allow us the I believe the flex that we need so converting it into a storage is
much more practical once we get through the current 155 campaigns and when we go
to the 105 campaign ICB 1 & 2 can handle up to 1,100 rounds per day which I don’t
think we’re ever going to get to so having it ICB 3 it doesn’t give us that
mitigation that that we would that I think the risk mitigation that we could
use at storage so to me having ICB 3 & 4 having three hundred and thousand plus
gallon tank of storage is a significant flux flex that we can have it makes up
for the amount of money that we spend the time that we spent that gives us
more flexibility should that have been done sooner I would have loved to say
yes that that should have been done sooner it wasn’t we are where we are so
I am taking action to get us so that we have that flex space storage space in
the future so that we don’t have to experience this as we are right now I
believe that was your question John yes yes yes it was another turn it over now
to our one of our newest members of the CAC
Bob Zanardi Thank You Irene this is Bob ginardi and I’m curious on could you
talk a little louder I’m having a heart sherry I can’t tell if you’re hearing me
from the mic or from the the live feed here in front of me is that better is
that better yeah okay I’m curious I don’t expect you to try and arrive there
right now the other thing is by mind reading through of all previous minutes it’s been estimated there’s been about a
million gallons hydrolysate treated in VTA today and you know let’s say that
number is high maybe it’s more like 700,000 or something just looking at the
250,000 gallons shipment in 2017 the 250,000 gallons shipments it’s a work in
progress right now and the next 250,000 being shipped off-site
from current inventory that’s you know roughly 50% of the hydrolysate produced
here is going off-site for shipment and I think that’s part of Terry’s
frustration and the other thing I’d like some clarification on is I can’t tell
whether you two are in favor of this next 250,000 not work in progress today
but an additional 250,000 going off site or whether you’re putting your foot you
know on the brake and saying we’ve got to figure out another way so are you in
favor that another 250,000 going off site beyond this current work in
progress or are you going to try to figure out an alternative to that thank
you so again you’re right I mean it is just unacceptable that so far yeah let’s
say it has to be now to hydrolysate that we have produced is has gone off site I
mean we’re headed toward that at least I agree with that but to answer your
question the aunt you know our intention is as I’d mentioned before we believe
it’s critical for the reasons that I articulated that we make sure that we do
not slow down production and that we can go forward with the IFD so I am NOT
dating right here that I’m against putting – should be another 20,000
gallons off site that’s not what I’m saying Mike do you want to add to that
yeah yeah I will tell you that being where we are as I articulated earlier
how challenging it is to get permission to ship hydrolysate it is not something
that we take lightly it is something that I believe we need to do to be able
to get through the IFB and as you mentioned once there BGA is up and
functioning that system can actually keep up with the front end of the system
it’s easy to say that you know if if we had planned better here we would not be
in this state in fact you know maybe the recently shipped 250,000 gallon could
have also been less than 250,000 a pea clan better again I can’t answer why
that planning didn’t occur but I am taking responsibility for it and I’m
telling you that that I’m going to do everything in my power to ensure that we
do not come back and say we need to ship again
hence the the changing of the ICB 3 & 4 into flex storage because I’m committed
to making sure that we process our hydrolysate on-site recognizing that
that is a commitment that we made to you all but it’s not just about that
commitment by itself from a cost perspective it’s a lot easier for us to
just do everything right there from a risk perspective it’s easier to do
everything right there and by law I need to ensure that I’m doing everything that
I can from a safety and environmental that that we do everything in my power
to process those things on-site so I’m gonna work to that obviously you all
don’t know me you can’t trust me yet as I think it was articulated by Terry that
you know we’ve eroded that trust that existed before but my level of
commitment is absolutely a hundred percent and so I don’t take the this
lightly but it is a necessity that we have to do to be able to get through
that permitting so that we can get the throughput that we need through the
plant and so that we do meet our commitments to the OPCW over well I just
want to add to that I mean it’s particularly frustrating that of all the
things that you have the most confidence in is what’s causing this problem and
again that’s the result of poor planning but again I think that the Silver Line
to that is that once we get it up and running
I think it’s a relatively non-problematic series of steps that
need to occur for it to be running at optimal levels of throughput actually I
don’t think anything’s going along with the VTA I think it’s just a matter of
the poor planning as to when we started using the VTA this particular time but I
want to ask our next our next member dr. Velma Campbell who although a new member
of the CAC has been involved with the CAC and it’s prossies for 20 years
yeah so at least 20 years so that she had a long history with the CAC and the
chemical weapons program Velma even if we can’t see each other in person I I
want to preface what I’m about to say by by saying that the it’s my firm belief
that the role of the CAC in partnership with all the parties working on the
important mission of chem d-mail the role of the CAC is one of the essential
elements to the development of the most optimal products and and end result in
both for the community but also for the ultimate mission and therefore our role
in the decision-making is not one that that we take lightly and and I in that
light I think I wouldn’t endorse the suggestion the recommendation if it
comes to that that the process be slowed down
to what to such an extent that if that permits
the bio treatment to absorb the the excess stored material and to avoid the
necessity of shipping now I hear that that’s not an easy decision to reach
it’s not an easy suggestion for for us to make it’s good to hear that you’re
thinking about storage and increased storage capacity and I certainly think
that that’s a that’s a decision that this Commission has long endorsed and
would continue to endorse the building of increased storage capacity one of my
concerns is that this is a repeating pattern as you’ve recognized but even if
we were to go ahead with transportation at this point and the plant becomes
operational and full then if it works as well as it looks like it might work or
there’s any plant upset we’re going to find ourselves right back in the same
situation again and while I appreciate the what sound the heartfelt apologies
and acceptance of responsibilities the fact of matter is to my way of thinking
allowing shipping at this point would simply be rewarding port planning and
mistakes that have been made because it’s not the first time maybe this is
the first time for this mistake but it’s not the first time that shipping has
been used as a fallback or suggested that it would be the most appropriate
fallback in fact it seems to me that having to go forward and ask for an
extension in the processes in fact a suitable result to
have to face for poor planning of this of this sort particularly since much of
the situation was aside from not being able to predict how well the plant works
and the the fact of the matter is this is the result of thinking of the chem D
mill process here in Pueblo as a as a dichotomy between the initial
demilitarization of the weapons and the management of the waste in point of fact
the weapon is not fully due note militarized until the job is complete
and that means that the bio treatment plant is not an add-on it’s not a a nice
pilot project item it’s in fact part of the chem d-mail process and an essential
part of the integrated process so I think that there’s expense in in each
option in fact my understanding is that conversion to Fleck storage as it’s
being called when it could could possibly require a permit modification
certainly would require considerable time and money and might in fact mean
that those units are not available for their original purpose should the need
arise so I think that given that adequate storage development of adequate
storage is something that obviously needs to be done it will cost something
and it will involve permanent mods those alternate those alternatives for
adequate storage need to be looked at as a separate and necessary issue not as a
solution to current problem norsu promised that
somehow mitigates this situation and makes it any more palatable finally and
I know there was probably no intent to cause to cause offence but the fact the
matter is that when the argument that somehow our insistence on doing this job
right will result in delay of the chem d-mail process doesn’t work
it seems really uncalled-for to suggest that insisting that especially since all
of it costs money there isn’t any of it that’s free but to suggest that somehow
our insistence on doing this job right is a reflection of a lack of
consideration for the service members it’s really uncalled for and quite a low
blow so that’s me sorry gentlemen that this has to be our
first cover yes so I I don’t mean to suggest that you
have any less concern for the service members that I do or that Mikey Bay does
that that’s not my intent I was just pointing out that you know if we do
delay that means that we will end up destroying the munitions later and that
the longer we run the plants the more money it cost and that means less money
for the troops that’s just a a very basic trade-off and it’s you know one
that I feel very strongly about but I don’t and I mean to suggest that you
don’t think that the troops are important I’m just stating that you know
if we have pursuing more money on this we’re spending more money less money on
another thing and I don’t think that what we’re proposing to do now while it
is again not what we said that we were had planned to do it doesn’t it’s not
something that we believe is get back to the issue of trust we made
all of these commitments in good state that I can assure you but and again
there’s no excuse for this it was a result of bad planning that assumption
and bad and bad execution there’s just no two ways around that so I think that
you know back to me the concern that Terry articulated about trust I mean I
understand where you’re coming from but I can assure you that everything that we
say we’re saying is I said in a good space and we’re telling you what we
think and what we know that know and believe the truth to be when things go
wrong and we tell you right away this is what happened and you know like we’ve
been constantly saying that were ultimately responsible for those
failures but I want to go back to something else that you just said which
is that the BGA is not an add-on I agree with you we regard our responsibility as
not only with destroying human issues but also disposing of the hydrolysate
and that our attention is to do that on-site from here on out so you know to
the point your point where you say that you know if we can’t if we ship another
20,000 gallons off site that we’re awarding for planning you know again I
think it’s hard to argue with what you’re saying except for one thing which
I think supersedes that and gets and that gets me back to kind of my overall
point here which is I don’t think we should compound one failure mainly in a
situation we’re in here we’re in now where we have to shift more hydraulic
laid off site with a failure to do the main mission which is to destroy this
chemical weapon as quickly and as safely as possible so that’s that’s my view and
this is Michael Bay if I could add just a couple of points as well I know that
you all don’t know me and I’m due to this position as I’ve mentioned
earlier but I I am 100% committed to ensuring that we work and we choose the
entirety of the plant it is one system it’s a closed-loop system with just a
little bit of coming back at the other end that you know an earth that can go
into you know be disposed of but at the end of the day you’re absolutely right
the bio treatment is part of the plant and it was designed that way and it
should be used that way I just need a little time to be able to put my finger
prints on this to ensure that we do not come out with this same problem again
nope as we always say in the looking back of finding out where the faults are
doing a fault analysis and being able to resolve that so that same problem
doesn’t happen again that that’s that’s my commitment and that’s that’s why I’m
trying to do right now with increasing the storage capacity that again I we
evaluated to making either looking at putting ICD 3 up and available but to be
able to bring that up on time to get it to see to get to the where it needs to
be is not it’s not like a light switch if it was I think I would make that more
of a better unit that we could have and you can’t and run it at some level it
just doesn’t work that way by time we get it there it’s just not going to be
viable enough I believe the fuck they’re keeping it into a storage recognizing
that we have no shift to three times now if we get this one going up 250,000
gallons that gives us that capacity that we need to mitigate again for this
campaign for the next campaign based on the analysis that I have seen and
question it doesn’t appear that we’re gonna ever be near max maxing the
current capacity of the holding tanks unless we know destroy musicians at
1,100 rounds per day which which I don’t think the system can handle so so being
that where we are right now going through this campaign is what we need to
mitigate against and that storage capacity it will give us that flex
needed my commitment to you is that I’m going to go back and see if we can
expedite bringing ICB 3 & 4 instead of you know 7 8 months can we make it
sooner so that we actually have that as a mitigation a lot earlier I believe
that the long pole in the tent was really determining as you mentioned we
do need to still go get that permitting but we can work through that and maybe
we can work with you know the state of Colorado to see if we can expedite since
we have some of that permitting in place for the current holding tank I don’t
know that yet but I’m going to explore to see if we can actually bring those up
online faster than the 7 or 8 months so that you know it mitigates the risk of
having again coming back here Oliver thank you can do questions you
would like to ask I think you need to use the green little microphones up with
the total there right Ken Griffin committee member I just have a few
comments the committee’s that prettyboy asked all the questions that come up
with lee terry did a very great job of stating your position and worth what
comes forth I’m probably the most lay person on the committee you know one of
the nura ones already been about four or five years but comments I like to make
is I remember when I first came on this situation came up and we given we
get the PCAT but some alternatives on what the storage tank no why don’t you
build an extra storage tank because it sounds like you might be in the future
something goes wrong and I think was just dismissed more than he said well
the thought was that people we won’t and we’ll just be able to ship it out so and
I just just last August I asked when the plant was up ramping and there’s doing
so well is really great that their mission was going through I asked I had
personally asked about the flow out the flow was going they said was great he’ll
not be any problem whatsoever and all Thunder were with the problem so the
questions I did have the committee did a great job of asking the questions and
pulled on the call and let you guys go wholly take a good break I was having a
little bit of trouble hearing you but from what I didn’t understand I I agree
with what he just said Mike did you hear better no and I was don’t say anything I
understand your frustration and you know you did ask the right question and we
should have had you know converted the current ITV you know three and four into
flex stores I mean that is a very easy risk mitigation that could have been
implemented a while ago and we would not have been in this place this predicament
as well as if we had done a better job of planning to get the BGA up and
functioning we would not be in this place if we had done our inputs into the
model better we would have recognized that you know we need to bring the BGA
up sooner so all those things cumulative I certainly understand your frustrations
my commitment to you is that I’m gonna work diligently to ensure that you know
those questions that you are having you know I asked the same question
you know why didn’t we what it is what it is right now but I need to move
forward but I am committed to ensuring that we do have that flex capacity in in
the near future how quickly I can get it I’m committed to that I’m going to
double my efforts to see if we can get that done faster than then what’s been
provided to you all so I do understand your frustration and again don’t they I
could say as I apologize today we’ve been on this conference call for an hour
and I realize this late in Washington DC or on the East Coast at least wherever
you are located and first of all I want to say this facility has been an or the
Pueblo Chemical Depot has been in Pueblo since 1942 and the community is embraced
and upheld this facility for the last of 10 years we have embraced the issue that
we want to get rid of the chemical weapons stored at the depot nobody wants
it anymore they need these members here at the CAC and I’m sure including
yourselves so anything thought that we want this to
go on forever and ever I want you to put out of your mind because we want it gone
we have plans for that 23,000 acres and although they may take longer than our
lifetimes to complete those plans they are indeed plans that we feel will be
excuse me an advantage to the communities and to Pueblo County we’ve
talked about flex storage we as a CAC or most of the members of the CAC saw the
model the afternoon I will tell you in all honesty
we could not make heads or tails out of that model and it it it didn’t make any
sense to us and I’m hoping that at some point somebody will be able to give a
better explanation of it then we had this afternoon
lastly we danced around the issue of delaying the integrated facility
demonstration project and we’ve never in you may not have a good answer to that
at this particular time but we hope that you will consider the possibility even
if it’s delayed for two or three weeks till after Thanksgiving
do it between Thanksgiving and Christmas so that there’s more time to draw off
the excess hydrolysate that are in the tanks and maybe give us a little bit
more flexibility to use that at this particular time I said I do you may not
have an answer to that at this point but I hope that you will consider that as
one of the possibilities that you will look at lastly I just want to thank you
for your time and we know this hasn’t been easy for you and it hasn’t been
easy for us and we appreciate your willingness to come on and talk to us
about what the issues are and what your concerns are and to listen to us what as
to what our concerns are Mike we look forward to you coming out here in
December for our meeting on the December 12th Charles if you want to join him
you’re certainly always welcome to do that but you may not want to face the
firing squad again I don’t know but but you know certainly I think that you know
that we can be reasonable but we’re going to be tough and there’s not going
to be easy answers on any side so thank you very much for working with us and
being a part of our meeting this evening well thank you for allowing us to
participate and we will consider what you just said I can assure you that
by the way do you have a date for the potential attack meaning that you’re
going to have between now and December 12 the potential date is November 28th
it is the Wednesday after Thanksgiving the last Wednesday of the month that’s right pardon me it’s all I could
click p.m. yes yeah actually we were not thinking of having a cat meeting that
day but having a permitting workgroup meeting and a bio utilization group
meeting because that was and that starts at two o’clock in the afternoon and
maybe not we might have both too so I’m just saying that November 28th has been
the date that we have set aside we may have both and we each may have one okay
I’m certainly available to call into that that meetings if that’s something
that you would desire I mean part of it is gonna depend I will be honest with
you part of it is going to depend on what happens between now and November
28th and as we all know there’s lots of things that could happen between now and
then decisions that can be made so part of the reason we put it typically is
that it depends on what happens between now and then otherwise we know for sure
the meeting will be December 12th I just want to close out here by again
expressing my embarrassment my frustration and my apologies for the
situations we find ourselves in here and you can appreciate the candor and the
spirit in which all your comments will offer I know that you know you may
disagree but it’s not personal and I look forward to working with you to try
to find the solution I certainly will be there on the fix for
the IPR so if that’s an opportunity and I just don’t know yet what my schedule
is going to be for the 12th but I’m open during that time to meet with anyone who
would like to meet with me individually or in a group so with that I’ll hand
things over to Mike and maybe we can work out something dr. bollen we can
meet when you’re out here for the IPR even if it’s not a formal CSE meeting
okay that would be terrific this is Mikey Bay
yes thank you dr. ball did you have something else to say no okay so again I
apologize for not being able to make it out there today I really actually wanted
to get out there but my schedule was that I was meeting with dr. jetty who’s
the army acquisition executive all day today and there was no way I could leave
to come out meet with you all I do plan on being out there on the 12th and if
you do meet with dr. ball on the 6th I certainly am going to be out there as
well being that I am a new leader in this environment and working with you
all I do ask for your indulgence to allow me to win back your trust
I think that is an important aspect of what we do and how we go forward it is
going to take you know an entire village to get this job done I recognize that
back and I’m committed to working with you all to win that trust back if we
have eroded it I apologize it is not intended that way whatsoever again as a
new person on the on the job I am going to work very hard to ensure that we
don’t make these decisions as was to capture New York it’s a convenience
thing it is not and I’m going to make sure that you know you all recognize
that we’re working extremely hard for you as well as for the department to
tell you we need to ensure that there you know the environment is for them so
I recognize your what you are and how you are perceiving this but please if
you allow me the opportunity I think I will demonstrate to you all that I’m
fully committed to making sure that you know we don’t take these things lightly
and then we’re gonna work through these problems not that there won’t be
problems in the future there absolutely will be problems in the future but I
think having that trust will go a long way and I’m gonna work very hard to win
your trust back if we’ve the road to dead tonight so I apologize I do want to
meet you everyone of you and work closely with you all to get these done
over to you all thank you very much and I think we’ll conclude the call at this
time we have a full agenda that we also have to go through but I want to thank
you for being on the phone call the seasoning survey thank you okay out here
out here okay we will get on with our agenda now
because but that was obviously very important that we do that and that
everybody that was here heard what we were what was being said and on both
sides of the of the phone you have in front of you or you had in front of you
the minutes from the previous meeting on September 26th I will entertain a motion
either for some Corrections or to approve as printed it’s been moved in to
approve the minutes all in favor opposed same sign we have some new members of
the CIC if you haven’t figured this out by now if you would introduce yourselves
and we all have an idea of who we’re talking to we had no table tents today
but we’ll have them next time promise you forgot Thank You Irene my name is
Bob ginardi I’m new to the committee and I’m very pleased to have been appointed
by the governor’s office to be a participant in this very important
activity my background is pretty similar to Ross’s background I’m a chemical
engineer by training and have about 40 years of experience before I retired
doing environmental work and environmental consulting so in fact I
ended my career by working for Bechtel corporation I spent eight years of
Bechtel and I retired from Bechtel in April of 2016 and my last Bechtel
assignment and proud to say was being part of the pcap systemization team and
I worked at the PCAT facility for my last
two years at Bechtel corporation so I do know the facility I do know the
challenges of getting that facility off the ground and running and I know a lot
of the individuals there personally so I’m very pleased to be part of this
committee thank you Doug Knapp with the Colorado
Department of Public Health and Environment the aforementioned Terry
Hart vice-chair the CIC Irene Cornell my chair John Norton citizen number I’m
Velma Campbell I’m the other new member of the Commission as I said earlier I’ve
been involved in two Kempton mill issue and deceit and attending CAC meetings
testifying at hearings and other activities since the inception of the
issue shortly after we moved here and we moved here in 1988 for those of you who
don’t know Ross Vincent was my husband and we felt one family member on the
Honda CAC at a time was sufficient or I probably would have applied for firm
membership before this my professional background is in occupational and
environmental medicine I’m an MD and I have a master’s in public health in
those fields and I practice here in Pueblo Kim Griffin thank you very much I
mean I just want to do because we didn’t have our table tents tonight that we all
do who we were talking to Colonel grace you’re up okay
well first I want to welcome mr. ginardi and dr. Campbell to the CAC mr. ginardi
I know you bring a wealth of experience very
applicable to what we’re doing and dr. Campbell I remember the last time we
were in this room you talked about how you were going to represent Ross and so
I just want to say that you were doing that well and I really appreciate your
comments tonight the other thing that I wanted to highlight is that you know
every morning I have a cub an update brief at 7:00 a.m. and so we go through
all the munition counts and we go through actions and activities and make
sure that we have everything set for the day and it’s been very satisfying to see
the amount of rounds that we have in storage continuously decrease and so
there’s about 700 mm rounds of storage right now from 780,000 and I’m gonna be
really excited when we go below 700,000 in the near future I want to talk to how
many we’ve destroyed I’ll let the the system’s contractor and PKF take credit
for that but I’ll just say that’s been very satisfying the other thing I’d add
is that that I’ve had a lot of personal interaction with dr. ball and Mister
obey and I know dr. balls been here and has met with Irene a few times already I
just want to express the seriousness that dr. ball takes with regard to this
program I mean it’s apparent he’s taken some very serious actions regarding the
program to make sure that it’s on the right path and I was here for mr. BAE’s
visit and I will tell you I was very excited to see how seriously he took the
project and so we was in meetings all day about 1600 and I’ll tell you the
gentleman to my left and Kim he wore out he took about four and a half hours to
walk through every part of the plant to include the BTA and the brown reduction
system and at every stop he had very pointed questions for how we needed to
fix the plant and so we talked a lot about one system he is involved in every
system from how we do maintenance to how parts are procured to how
system works and I’ll just tell you I would ask you to give him time I was
very impressed I’ve been a little on a lot of senior leaders he takes this
incredibly seriously and not only that but he’s willing to take actions to make
it better it’s show I expect that he will do that
and you will be impressed with the plant’s progress and the things that he
and dr. ball said tonight so from that I’ll just cover some of the things that
we’ve done at the DEP outside we had a successful treaty inspection since the
last time we talked another good sign that we’re making progress is that we
completed the inspection portion in one day that’s the first time that’s been
done in Pueblo took a full another day to explain where all those rounds went
because of all the different operations were doing but but at the end of the day
about 20-30 after I had short run-in with a bobcat on the depo they signed
off and we were good the other thing that I think is a great success and I
appreciate seeing a lot of the members here at the restoration advisory board I
think we continue to be successful and mr. hard I took away your you know
desire to come out and see that stuff and so we hope to make that happen
sooner than later support the P camp you know we are being
stretched to our limit and I would give the credit to to Brad still over there
in the Denver Broncos jacket and his team and and chem ops down there with
Carlos Estrada but Brad’s due to our team not due to the project but he is
exceeding our capacity so we were designed and delivered about 4,000
rounds a week Brad and his team has been exceeding that for all the different
things that are going on for main plant operations the 4.2 inch reconfiguration
and then the receipt Andry storage of those rounds EDS operations and the
support that we provide to them and so a lot of good going on there permitting
Chris post camp and his teams I talked about this morning submitted the 45-day
notice for closure of EDS and as I also discussed we’re waiting on some key
decisions from aqua and P cap on how we go forward on that I signed the Fonzie
the finding of no significant impact for the SDC’s but as we’d also discussed I’m
waiting for all of the comments to be complete before we submit that back out
we’re still in discussion of how we’re gonna push that back out to the
community so progress there and Chris post camp and Angus Mac will be from my
team have been embedded and part of that process and making sure that your
concerns are included in the permitting in the EA and all of the the projects
that go there for the community we’re excited to be here and part of what a
tremendous community a tremendous community that supports veterans and so
we look forward on Saturday to unfurling the flag as part of the depot and some
of pcap employees for the playing in the national anthem on Saturday I believe
CSU pueblo if they win they’re in tournament so it’s a big game for them
and we’re excited to be a part of it veterans day are always a great time to
be here in Pueblo for Veterans Day especially for soldiers and so we’re
going to do something a little different this time the focus of the Memorial
Bridge ceremony is going to be on women in the military and so our own
Catherine’s at Tao who works for my security division is going to talk about
her experiences we’ve got a female lieutenant colonel who’s going to speak
from the National Guard and Carl Sayer is gonna represent me at the memorial
bridge ceremony so I’m excited for Colonel Sarah did you add for us so lots
of good things going on lots of progress munitions are going counts are going
down so I think that’s all good and meets your intent to get those munitions
completely destroyed and return that property to the state of Colorado so
that it can continue to provide a benefit to you thanks any questions with
the colonel if not we’ll move on to the pcap update and
oh I’m sorry Kevin thanks Larry yeah I’m just quiet I just keep a low
profile but you know one thing that was mentioned on the conference call was
permitting requirements with regard to flex storage you know I think my team
has proven ourselves would be pretty agile pretty responsive I think we we
ask tough questions and we evaluate permit mods both on their regulatory and
technical merit and and we’ll continue to do that but at the same time we
understand the need so if there is a permit mod coming our way you know we
can prioritize our efforts can’t promise specific time frames just because we
don’t know that the details of it but we will get on it and it will be very
responsive so I think we’ve proven ourselves to be that way and we’ll
continue to do so with regard to current permitting activities I guess I’ll run
down my usual hit list here we haven’t approved a lot this
particular period between the last meeting in this one we have only
approved what we’ve looked at three class one’s not requiring approval
essentially administrative type changes and one we have approved one class one
that had to deal with clarification of how we make hazardous waste
determinations for energetics and secondary waste we have been also though
we are in the process of evaluating ten additional permit mods and we have
issued comments back questions or comments back to the facility on six of
those we one class 2 is currently under our review and we did get a summary on
that and that one was regarding treatment of
waste and waste items in containers within the agent processing building
primarily to reduce agent concentrations to allow for management and shipment of
secondary waste off site we’ve had some discussions regarding some of the
technical details on that and we’ll and those are ongoing let’s see with regard
to ongoing discussions regarding IFD sampling we we have had a couple of
meetings pertaining to how those samples you know sampling will be conducted
during IFD and how that’s going to relate to the NP HRA analysis pretty
preliminary at this point but we’re looking at schedule and when that will
happen we’ve also had some preliminary discussions on SDC permitting potential
approaches requirements and schedules associated with those efforts as well as
some coordination with our sister Division Air Pollution Control with
regard to air permitting requirements and how those relate to allowing for
construction or the initiation of construction of certain infrastructure
that will enable the SDC s to be installed with so one of our challenges
is to integrate the the requirements of both our retro program and our permanent
program and to make sure that everything kind of dovetails together there we have
also issued one compliance advisory to the facility and that centered around
operation of pH probes during an agent neutralization reactor our agent
processing in the ANR’s we were experiencing menace’
malfunctions of the pH probes that led to some inaccurate readings and the the
processing steps were very prescriptive in the permit some of those
were short cut a little bit and so we’ve had an ongoing dialogue with the site on
taking steps to alleviate that and we’ll be having a compliance conference on
November 7th to discuss those issues with site representatives so I think
that’s pretty much rundown of what we’ve been up to any questions be happy to
take home any questions of Kevin okay now we’ll go to the pcap facility and
updates on that with starting with Brett I guess yes I’ll start this so first I
wanted to express my appreciation of dr. ball and mr. Abady joining us and
they’re taking responsibility for the position we’re in about hydrolysate
shipment I just want to say that it is me and my team that made this mistake we
are responsible for that poor planning that we’ve discussed we made the bad
assumptions that went into the model and there is no excuse for putting the
program in this position so as Colonel Grice pointed out when mr. obey was out
here for his site tour he did get the full blood-and-guts tour as we say he
spent four and a half hours out walking through the plant challenged us on a
number of situations the latest one being that flex storage that he brought
up tonight so I do expect to see changes based on his leadership to this program
and he truly is challenging this project to be better so with that introduction
just let me start into our normal update starting with our safety performance I
changed the format of this so that you can get a better sense of how we’ve been
performing over time rather than just giving you a number every month so what
you see on here is our recordable incident rate through
this calendar year you can see we started this year in a very poor
position from a safety perspective and we have been recovering since that time
as we talked about a couple of months ago we did implement a safety
improvement plan this earlier this summer and you can see that that is
starting to take make an impact in our safety numbers we’re down to an incident
rate of 0.76 right now which is not where we want to be but we are headed in
the right direction on a positive note we have continued without any lost-time
incidents and we’re now at nearly 11 million hours since our last lost time
accident so that’s a good news story if you go to the next slide
go ahead what’s that first-aid accidents we and we have a number of first-aid
accidents that there is no commonality because behind all of our first aids the
latest one was a paper cut and so we do we ask our employees to record report
every near-miss every first-aid so we can do analysis and look at is there a
trend is there something we should be going out and to addressing at the
first-aid situation rather than allowing it to get up to a recordable so that is
very minor things that we’ve been seeing in first-aid so if there’s a any kind of
a rash that has to be treated we treat that as a first aid if there’s a paper
cut a bug bite as a first aid so we look at all of those things to do the
analysis and identify what actions we might need to take so if you go to the
next slide this is a new graph that I just wanted to add in here this time to
show you how the plant has been performing so just to explain the chart
here the bars the tall bars that you see on this are the daily destruction of
munitions on every given day so you can see how that has been gradually ramping
up over time and then the line that goes across there
the dark line is the recordable or the rollin 7 day average of that munition
destruction so what you can see on here is a gradual ramp up if you actually do
a trend line across this you probably can’t see the numbers but it would go
from about a hundred munitions per day on average up to about 300 munitions per
day on average and that is the level of success that we did not plan for we
didn’t think we are going to hit 300 munitions per day in this plant at this
time a couple of things that you see great out there that’s where we
purposely reduced our munition destruction so we could do some of those
investments in the plant that we’ve talked about to take a short term hit on
munition destruction to position ourselves for the long run so the first
one there the larger band you can see we did the replacement of empty you bin
door on empty line 2 we also had to do a belt drive replacement on empty you line
two at that same time and that is when we were starting to see a number of
pressurized ground so we had to shut the munition wash out station down for two
days to just go in and decontaminate the agent that had come out into that mws
room so that was two days of zero production to go in and do that
decontamination and a little further over you see MTU one bin door
replacement so we took the lines down again reduced rate and we’re only using
one line as we replace the MTU bin door on MTU number two then at the tail end
there you can see that it’s ramping it down again that is because we did reduce
the throughput through the main plant to reduce hydrolysate production so that we
weren’t shipping the additional hydrolysate so that was purposely ramped
down we throttled the plant back to 260 munitions per day so that we could
reduce that hydrolysate production in preparation for IFD x’ and to reduce the
shipping the one I just also wanted to point out you see that
there’s been a few excellent days they’re the biggest throughput we’ve had
on a single day that bar that goes up there in the middle of the box for MTU
bin door one replacement we destroyed 690 munitions in that single day and
that was on October 3rd so really good increase in the throughput of the main
plant we are seeing the improvements in that our investments in those mws lines
really starting to take effect and you can see that at the back end of this
graph as we see dramatic increase in the throughput based on those improvements
we made into the cavity access machines we have ramped up slightly this week
this shows the munition curve over the last several months in July we made a
commitment to dr. ball that we would destroy thirty six thousand munitions by
the end of the year from July 1st through the end of the year this was our
tracking graph to show how we were doing against that destruction of 36,000 and
this is where I can tell you it clearly shows we didn’t plan for the level of
success that we have achieved we are well exceeding that throughput rate and
it looks like we’re going to easily exceed that 36,000 munitions currently
were right around 7700 munitions ahead of our forecast to achieve that 36,000
commitment that we made to dr. ball that’s the blue line up at the top if
you’ll go back the red line down there at the bottom that is the baseline
reconfiguration of our four point two inch mortars you can see that also as a
head of our plan and that’s where we are definitely stressing Colonel gryce’s
crews to keep delivering those munitions so we can maintain this throughput at
the plant of both the baseline reconfiguration and munition destruction
through the main plant and as we’ve talked about the side effect of that is
the shipping that we talking about most of the evening so far
as of Friday we’ve shipped about a hundred and eighty eight thousand
gallons out of the 250,000 gallons that we previously talked to the CAC about
and we did recommend to dr. ball and mr. eBay that we ship up to up to another
250,000 gallons and I’ll tell you I see this as a short-term issue as we prepare
for that integrated facility demonstration we’re trying to do a
balancing act between ensuring that we have sufficient capacity in those 30
days storage tanks so that we can run the front end of the plant at full
throughput rates to get the emissions for our Part B permit while at the back
end we have to have sufficient hydrolysate in those tanks to run the
bio treatment area at full throughput so that really is a balancing act we’re
looking at what the main plant is able to produce to try to forecast what is
the right amount of hydrolysate do we leave in those tanks for running the BT
a what is the proper amount of empty capacity we have for running the APB so
that’s a balancing act and that really is what that model that was demonstrated
to you today is trying to help us with is understand what’s the right tipping
point to make that decision so we have recommended that and if
needed that would result in a total of 500,000 gallons ship since September and
as as the CAC has pointed out to dr. ball and mr. obey I’m sure they will
take your recommendation of or listen to your recommendation of slowing down the
plant and make the decision on whether we’re going to ship or delay those ifts
right now all of those shipments that we have sent have safely arrived at vo
Leo’s facility and Port Arthur Texas and that has been a very smooth operation
Brad due to the flooding that they’ve had in that part of Texas have you been
able to continue this shipment we have they had a a plan
plant outage for one week that had a very slight impact to us but they have
storage on-site where we’ve been able to continue to ship and it has an impact at
the plant okay Brett if I could earlier today
I think it was Jim or John mentioned when they were describing the model to
us that I guess the storage buffer capacity you’d like to be about 50% in
the 30-day tanks and business-as-usual you’re somewhere between 80 and 88
percent we have okay so is this 250k of requested additional shipment in 2018
that pulls you down to your 50% level no that doesn’t pull slowly down to 50%
level that’s where we’re trying to identify what’s the right capacity to
have for the ifvs so that wouldn’t get us down to the 50%
level the bio treatment area that we’ll talk about here on the next slide is
coming up to operations and that’s what we expect to bring us back down into
that 50% level okay and the intent of that I assume they told you is if we
keep 50% of that tank capacity empty and 50% full that gives us the best recovery
of any of those off normal situations where if the front end of the plant has
issues we still have sufficient hydrolysate to feed the IC bees and keep
the bugs happy if we have problems at the back end it gives us capacity in
those tanks so that we don’t have to ship or slow down munition destruction
but but you know there’s that old saying you know do you feel lucky I guess do
you feel unlucky that operating at 88% it doesn’t give you comfort I mean right
right now it seems like you can’t operate because you’re 88% of a hundred
percent you got some additional is it you just don’t feel lucky or what
we don’t know yet what the full throughput rates of this plant are and
when we do the integrated facility demonstration for those three weeks at
least for the 5 hour runs of that we want to be able to see what is this
plant capable of to ensure that the emissions that go into our model are
multiple pathways assessment truly are the bounding emissions that we would get
out of this plant we need to make sure we’re doing that to perform that we need
sufficient empty capacity in those tanks to run full out now I would tell you
running full out for those I F DS I don’t expect the plant to achieve that
on a continuous basis that will be peak rates so I you know and so we’re
planning for what are the peak rates during those ifvs
and as we talked about the poor planning we did so to get us into this situation
was not planning for success I will tell you my team is planning for success in
those ifts okay thank you also we need to plan for
a little bit as we’re going through those ifts you know as we’re running
through a high rate there’s a chance that somewhere in there we have a
facility issues so we’ve generated a lot of waste processed a lot of munitions
but because of an issue the data we generate may not be useful so we got to
go back and replicate that again so again we want to make sure there’s
margin in the tank so we don’t have to stop and then redo the ifts
our portion later on somewhere we want to get them done this this question may spill over from
from storage to processing on the next page though by I had two questions about about storage one is I’m still a little
troubled by the idea of the conversion because we’re using where we’re
converting to flex use something that we might have a need for in for its
original purpose and and what would you do and so it’s question one is what what
would happen if the for some reason there’s a need and the Flex storage just
filled up and then you need to use those units to address the original mission
and then the second question is when are we going to stop saying that
eventually we won’t need storage because it’ll take so long to get the storage
that will be done with everything anyway and then we end up having to ship
because we didn’t have the extra storage what are we gonna get done doing that
and just go after building some proper storage so as mr. ebay talked about he
has it’s looking at a number of options right now so we are looking at options
of turning those modules three in flooring three and four into flex
storage we’re looking at the option of converting bringing module three back up
into operations so that it can be operated and we’re looking at what other
options there are so we have also looked at other storage options what the cost
and time frame for that is so we’re preparing that report for the aqua
program and mr. obey to make their decision on what our right path forward
is our intent is to have that to are filled off as here within the next two
weeks well we get a report on what some of those options are
we we are developing a report so that will be up to the aqua program to share
that because it it seemed to me that there might be some in the industry in
the hazardous waste industry there might be some mobile options and we’re looking
at that also we are looking at mobile options for storage that was one of the
things that they had us look at Brett we’ve been told that it cost three point
five million dollars to ship 250,000 gallons yes are you going to look at
future shipment costs that you might run into if you have glitches in the program
yes so that that would be one of the options that would be looked at is a
comparison to the cost of extra storage right a spare tire might be a good idea
right and so that is those are the things we’re looking at is all those
options so the shipment story on site storage bringing module three and four
to storage module three up into operation so all of those are being
assessed right now matter time and money yeah well we’ll have recommendations
how’s that so if you go to the next slide the bio treatment area update we
have successfully restarted started the bio treatment area to treat that
hydrolysate as we’ve talked about in the past there is a process to bringing that
up into full operations where we start with batch feed to get the bugs
acclimated to their new food stream and make sure that they are actually
destroying the thio dye glycol to the levels that we want to then we do a
second batch feed and then we start slowly ramping up continuous feed so
that first batch feed to both modules wanted to occurred in early October and
we were able to do the second batch feed mid-october the 19th and 20th and this
week we have started the continuous feed rate at the low feed of
25 percent of the design feed rate with the intent that we will be moving
ramping up to achieve that full demonstrated throughput feed rate by
November seventh so things are progressing on track
the bugs are destroying the thio dye glycol as we expect them to and so I do
fully see that the bio treatment area will be up and running fully by November
7th and and then as when we can achieve that balance between the front end of
the plant and the back end of the plant we have never achieved that before so
far so when we get there that will be a good day for pcap because it’ll be the
first time we’ve got it running stem to stern and find out that balance point
what’s that bio will be at 100% of the that
demonstrated throughput rate that’s correct and then right now we have plans
to perform that integrated facility demonstration beginning in mid-november
if we stay on this track okay next so we’ve talked a lot here about the
noticeable dent we’ve made in the stockpile numbers and stuff which is
good to me what the key takeaway is is destroying over 400 tons of aging you
know that’s really what’s good for the community and and the risk in there and
so that’s you know so we destroyed about 16 percent by weight for the stop so
even though we’ve talked a lot of issues and a lot of things you know we’ve made
a lot of progress and especially in the area where it counts of getting rid of
that yeah how I just wondering how many
gallons of material that ordered sixteen point five tons up would represent yeah
so now we’ve done a little over eight hundred thousand pounds in about seventy
one thousand munitions so it’s a little over pan looks like so again the good news story
since we started the plant 13 June destroyed almost 28,000 of those around
and so and a lot of those last probably six to eight weeks the plant has really
come to life and some of those process improvements and stuff that we’ve been
talking about for a year and out we’re starting deep come to light and be
useful and fruit well so we’re really seeing that so again we’ll see those
numbers keep increasing as we go forward next slide here are rejects and
problematic munitions to date we’ve had 64 155 38 another 105 and so far doing
all the four pieces only 17 rejects that we’ve encountered so far so that’s going
baseline reconfiguration is really going well you know this is one of those good
slides you know we finished the 105 project off
reconfiguration campaign I believe in April and all those munitions have
stayed reconfigured so we did it right working through the four things again
we’re right about almost 14,000 of those being reconfigured again was Brett and
his team and take a look at that process made a few tweaks and it is really
they’re averaging well over 200 sometimes pretty close to 300 a day so
that is going really well next slide please and here we can kind
of see the conclusion of some efforts as the board knows you put out for public
comment DEA for the static detonation chamber starting on August 22nd closed
October 6th we received four official comments we
also held three public information meetings those generated some general
discussion issues so we gathered up those questions as best we could and our
answers to those those questions and they’ve got those all together as
Colonel mentioned he signed the Fonzi we’re trying to put all those stuff
together so we tell the whole story in and again that’s something that went
very well joint effort really well done well
what’s the difference between an official comment and comments official
comments came in as is this is a comment to the EA the unofficial again was just
a question somebody may have had at a meeting typically not on the EA but
probably on the process the project people just in general yeah I mean my my
point is that’s so few comments for a major you know EA for instance I would
expect it to be like a normal permit approval hundreds of comments so how do
you interpret just so few comments I mean it’s the level of participation or
interest pretty low or what is it is low but I’ll tell you this is
probably the most public participation we’ve had in quite a while it was only
12 individuals plus the CAC or most of the CAC I guess our comments aren’t
official rate no no no I’m tell me just easy I would I’m sure I’m sure this
committee had more than four comments excuse me
I’m sure this committee had more than four comments no I I’m just guessing
you’ve been getting a lot of feedback over over this process it just I’m just
amazed how few official comments were were submitted that’s why I just wonder
if there was a low level of interest or public participation or there’s
typically not a lot of public participation even though we went to
great lengths you know typically a public notice in the papers the little
thing at the back we actually took out like a half page ad in the paper to
advertise this I can’t remember how many hundreds and hundreds of made lives we
sent out but we got we got 12 people yes I think the commander made a comment
today earlier afternoon that the comm the number of comments received are
being addressed at this time so yes I take it the comments that this
Commission made during the visits are also being taken into account too Terry
I mean all the comments you refer to you know during the tours and everything
else yeah I don’t think we converted those to the public comments on the EI
process but we had when we went down earlier in the year down to Penniston we
had a significant a number of comments and questions as we worked our way
through the the day on the briefing of the tour and then the post tour briefing
we raised quite a few comments questions and those were addressed and then the
second thing that we did is when we went out to Blue Grass Kentucky I did exactly
the same thing they’re not the same comments questions or anything else but
we peppered with the photo that folks for the significant amount and but we
did not necessarily include all those in the official comment section of the EA
and a lot of those comments and questions that came back from the tours
and stuff actually went into formulating the EA and were considered upfront so we
had feedback up front okay next slide as you’ve seen on
several of my recent presentations this is a photograph of the workforce
restarting the BTA this has become a tradition as we restarted the plant get
out there with the workforce that was responsible for that area of the plant
and take a picture they’re very proud of their portion of the plant and the
ability to get it back up and operating so we very much celebrate that and with
that we’re open to any additional questions any other questions of bread
or yeah thank you man I’m sure you’ve got a couple of questions that are good you’re darn tootin we’re putting
together a formal record we use some litigation here so no ago the first item
is Brett was talking about producing that report of options a path forward
this is gonna be submitted to the folks up up through Charles Paul and the
question was asked could we get a copy of that and I think the answer was
depends on if dr. ball allows that I’m gonna make a motion here to have the CAC
request that formally request that because we would like to see a copy of
that options report and then the second thing is the decision process on that is
made I’m assuming by dr. ball and Mike obey frankly I would like to know as
soon as we can when that decision is being made and if we could get an
advance notice of what it appears that the decision is gonna be because that
allows for a path forward so if my fellow CAC members would agree
with that I would make a motion that we as the Colorado CAC formally request a
copy of the of the options report once it’s produced so that we can also take a
look at it and that allows us to participate in conversation and then
secondly get as much advance notice of way as we can of the decision when it’s
being made see if I can word this properly it’s been moved and seconded
that number one of the CAC requested information concerning the
recommendations made to dr. ball because about options that he has for hydrolysis
or other types of options and the second one is that when a decision is going to
be made that we receive an advance notice of that decision is that reflect
your motion okay it’s been moved and seconded or there are any discussions
amongst the CAC members concerning that one quick comment for purposes of the
folks who might be watching this after the fact that’s actually the kind of
promises that we were giving given repeatedly that if there were ever
decisions that were made to have to trigger shipment that we would be
allowed as the CAC to receive the information that was being put in front
of the decision-makers and that we would be allowed to be participants in the
process that led to that decision so it is consistent with what we were promised
repeatedly when we said we didn’t like them even exploring shipment as an
option so I’ll just point that out for the record okay any other comments that
need to be made we’ll take a vote all in favor signify by saying aye opposed same
sign I guess I’m sure that they will see it by
tomorrow morning if not before ending other questions of members
if not we’ll move on to the permitting work room meeting the Kevin Dineen a lot
of the information that happened at the permitting workgroup meeting but one of
the things that we did have was a meeting concerning class 2 a permit
modification number 169 which is the treatment of waste and waste items in
containers was held I don’t know if there were any official comments made on
that I don’t think so it’s a pretty straightforward even though it is a
quest well I think it’s got I think we covered the book as I mentioned earlier
we did tentatively schedule ace pwg and bug meeting on November 28th and that
will determine whether they determined partially by recommendations made to dr.
ball and others and if necessary we might even have a say C meeting although
we are currently not scheduled for that but I I would request that most of you
who are regular attendees of this pencil it into your your I was gonna say in
your calendar but in most cases that’s probably electronically put into your
calendar only so that the fact it’s easier to cancel a meeting than it is to
add one of the last minute so I would ask that you do that otherwise our next
regularly scheduled meeting is December 12th we will have subcommittee meetings
of both the permitting work group meeting in the bug at 2 o’clock and the
county to the district attorney’s office and a CAC meeting will follow at 6
o’clock here in this building at that time I know mr. obey attend
plans to attend whether or not dr. ball is able to attend that’s on unknown at
this particular time but I know he would like to at this point particularly after
today’s meetings so I think that if there are no other questions or comments
to be made and seeing none I think we’d we only missed the two hour time frame
by one minute so I think at that point we’re gonna we’re gonna leave it as a
good thank you all meeting is adjourned

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